Codes and other problems that derailed a long-haul tow...

[Crunch]

I pulled out this afternoon on a 900 mile tow with 8,000lbs behind me. I got about 40 miles when I noticed the accelerator was sluggish and I had no power, and the dreaded Check Engine light was on. Even though I had recently replaced the APPS with a Timbo from Geno's, I was thinking that was the problem. So I pulled off the highway to check it out.

As soon as I got below 25 MPH The engine was running a bit rough and the truck had virtually no power. I pulled into a parking lot so I could check the codes. Before I shut off the engine I revved it a few time. At low RPM the engine was rough, but smoothed out at higher RPM's. Absolutely no smoke from the exhaust, and since the injectors were done 5 months ago so I doubted that was the problem. I checked for codes and this is what popped up:

P0107 Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Low
P0483 (Cooling Fan Speed)
P2146 (Fuel Injector Group 1 Supply Voltage Circuit)

I limped back to the farm to unload and drop off the trailer. On the way back, the truck had virtually no power from take-off or going up hills. But on level highway I had no problem running at 70--75 MPH. The only issue was no acceleration; it took a long time to get to that speed and hills would kill it. Otherwise, it rolled fine and the engine ran smooth. It just seemed like it was starved for fuel.

I got to the farm and unloaded, put the trailer on the pad and unhitched it. When I started the truck it was running *perfect*. It ran smooth, revved just fine and had plenty of power. As I drove home I checked it for power and it was like new. If I had to, I could have driven it like I stole it and escaped from the cops...if I was inclined to such things.

So from the beginning of this experience I started with the APPS, then injectors. Then I got to thinking it was the CP3 going out. But once I was unhitched and flying naked with a smooth running engine and full power I started thinking that it may be the ECM. The truck is a stock, 2003 with a recent injector replacement. I don't believe that this year has a TIPM. But a few months ago I did notice that my Prodigy brake controller was flashing "NC" with no trailer connected. Normally, that model only has an LED dot (and other dots, if boost is active) to indicate power when no trailer is connected. Because it was at least 10 years old I just upgraded to the newer P3, and it works fine.

Am I correct in thinking that the ECM is crapping out, or should I continue to consider the CP3? That was at the top of the list until disconnecting the trailer eliminated the problem. If it is the ECM, are the aftermarket versions as good as the OEM? A friend told me that a mechanic friend of his uses the aftermarket replacement in their shop, and doesn't seem to have any problems with them but I tend to lean toward OEM on something like this.

Thanks for any help on this. I was all psyched up for a drive through Bourbon Country, but that's going to have to wait. I'm just glad this didn't happen hundreds of miles from home.

 

[AH64ID]

I would start with the codes you pulled, as they don’t indicate a CP3 issue.

Clear them and see what returns.

 

[cerberusiam]

Go back and hook up the trailer again but NOT the trailer wiring and see if the problem is still gone. If it is, trailer wiring problem and you need a break out box.

 

[Crunch]

I would start with the codes you pulled, as they don’t indicate a CP3 issue.

Clear them and see what returns.

I've pretty much discounted the CP3 as the problem, as well as the APPS since the problem seemed to disappear when the trailer was disconnected. Unfortunately, I don't have the equipment necessary to clear the codes. In the past I've disconnected the batteries for an hour or so, but that doesn't clear them.

Go back and hook up the trailer again but NOT the trailer wiring and see if the problem is still gone. If it is, trailer wiring problem and you need a break out box.

Are you saying drop the hitch on the ball but don't plug in the wiring connector? If so, we did the reverse of that. After we unloaded the shrimp we parked and unhitched the trailer in order to move the truck and unload the bed. After it was unloaded we backed the truck up to the trailer and plugged the connector back in, but didn't drop the drop the hitch on the ball. The truck ran fine. I should mention that about 6 weeks ago I was on the return side of a long trip without the trailer and the Check Engine light came on so I pulled over and checked the codes. I didn't have the code list with me, but I called my friend (who also has a 3rd Gen of the same year) and had him look up the codes. At that time I had the P0483 (Cooling Fan Speed) and P2146 (fuel injector Group 1 Supply Voltage Circuit) codes. The truck was running great, so I passed it off as a glitch and continued driving home without incident. After a few restarts the Check Engine light went out and didn't return. Of the three codes, the P0107 (Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor Low) and P2146 (fuel injector Group 1 Supply Voltage Circuit) codes seem like they could be logically connected, but the P0483 (Cooling Fan Speed) code looks like an outlier. The only connection I can think of between the three is the ECM, but I admit I am not that familiar with how all the sensors and components tie in to the truck and the electronics. Don't all the components related to those codes feed into the ECM in some way? I'm planning on taking it to the dealer for a diagnostic, but know that checking here first and doing the research can save a lot of hassle when driving into the dealer's garages.

 

[cerberusiam]

All 3 of those codes are separate circuits and really have no relationship. If you can clear the codes and they don't come back right away then it is an intermittent condition, you need to clear the codes to see what comes back to track it. Disconnecting the batteries won't clear them, you need a scanner to do that.

The 03's have a TSB for replacement of the ECM A and B connectors due to leaking and causing connection issues. Really, if you clean the engine any of them can leak enough into the pin outs and cause problems. I had to replace the ECM on my 05 because one little pin hole leak at sometime cause the fan control pin to rot off and lost fan control

I would pull the ECM connectors and check very carefully for ANY signs of moisture contamination and corrosion to start with.

 

[Crunch]

The 03's have a TSB for replacement of the ECM A and B connectors due to leaking and causing connection issues. Really, if you clean the engine any of them can leak enough into the pin outs and cause problems. I had to replace the ECM on my 05 because one little pin hole leak at sometime cause the fan control pin to rot off and lost fan control

I would pull the ECM connectors and check very carefully for ANY signs of moisture contamination and corrosion to start with.

That makes a lot of sense. In December when I had the injectors replaced, the first thing they did was steam clean the engine. Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner or personally know anyone who does. I'll run the truck in to a nearby dealer either this afternoon or tomorrow to have the codes cleared. If it is a moisture/corrosion problem, is the OEM replacement the way to go for an ECM or are they all pretty much the same. This is the first vehicle I've ever owned that has an ECM.

 

[cerberusiam]

ECM replacement is a last resort thing, it is either expensive or a huge hassle unless you really know what to do. A new ECM is about $2500 plus programming, a reman is $800-1200 and if you don't get the right place to do it it make take 3 returns to get things correct. I have a list of the better ECM repair places if needed.

 

[Crunch]

ECM replacement is a last resort thing, it is either expensive or a huge hassle unless you really know what to do. A new ECM is about $2500 plus programming, a reman is $800-1200 and if you don't get the right place to do it it make take 3 returns to get things correct. I have a list of the better ECM repair places if needed.

I just got back from zipping up to the dealer to have the codes cleared. It about knocked me over when they didn't charge me for it. Another big surprise was that I had no ABS codes stored. This past winter my ABS and emergency brake lights would ding on when going over rough roads, and I was prepared to send the ABS unit out to the place in California to have the solder joints redone. So right now I have no codes. I'll continue to check for codes and see what happens.

As for the ECM, I saw the thread in the 6.7 forum about "replace or repair" for the ECM. SIA Electronics was one place that was recommended, but if it comes to dealing with the ECM I'll PM you. Seems like right at the 15 year mark for the truck the electronics all started to degrade at the same time.

 

[p-Bar]

That makes a lot of sense. In December when I had the injectors replaced, the first thing they did was steam clean the engine. Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner or personally know anyone who does. I'll run the truck in to a nearby dealer either this afternoon or tomorrow to have the codes cleared. If it is a moisture/corrosion problem, is the OEM replacement the way to go for an ECM or are they all pretty much the same. This is the first vehicle I've ever owned that has an ECM.

Steam cleaning and pressure washing guaranteed to get water where you don't want it.....

 

[Crunch]

Steam cleaning and pressure washing guaranteed to get water where you don't want it.....

That's my worry. We rescheduled the tow and I just got back last night. 2,000 miles and not a single problem, other than the blower motor and/or resistor that's crapping out. Checked for codes a few times on the trip and nothing showed on the odometer. Nary a glitch, and had plenty of power and great fuel economy, considering I was pulling 8,000lbs. on the outbound leg of the trip. I'm hoping that the problems a couple of weeks ago were transient, but am prepared to send the ECM out for repair it needed. Ordered the resistor from Geno's and bought a blower motor from locally. When the resistor arrives I'll pop them both in and see how it goes. Just glad the engine side of the truck equation is doing well. Getting the load delivered took a big weight off my mind, so the return trip was stress free since there wasn't a time factor getting back.

 

[Crunch]

This is an update and hopefully the final resolution to this problem. Since my last post on June 12 regarding this problem, the following is what has transpired. A few weeks after the problem-free 2,000 mile trip I was supposed to do a short, 150 mile run. About 30 miles after pulling out with the trailer I felt a very mild, almost imperceptible engine belch. I knew exactly what that meant, and sure enough, the check engine light was on. I pulled over and checked for codes, and the P2146 (P2146 (fuel injector Group 1 Supply Voltage Circuit)) was showing. Basically, I was running on 3 injectors. In the time I was waiting for my friend to show up with his truck so we could switch out the trailer my truck had cooled down enough so that when I was repositioning it to unhitch the trailer all 6 injectors were working. We decided I would try again, but after only a few miles the problem returned, so that was the end of that trip. The problem was gone as I started for home without the trailer, but came back before I got home. It seemed to definitely be related to heat.

Since my injectors are still under warranty I ran the truck up to the Cummins Southern Plains shop that replaced the injectors. They checked the resistance on the solenoids, but it all checked out and they told me they thought it was an ECM problem. After some research here in a different forum I saw a mention and recommendation for SIA Electronics in this thread. I sent it in, and just got it back about 2 1/2 hours ago. Reinstalled it in less than 20 minutes and took the truck out for a test run with no problems. There was a mud dobber that had built a nest in the engine compartment, but i have a feeling that's a problem that will take care of itself. The ticket SIA Electronics sent with the repaired ECM showed that they had replaced a diode for Group A and some other minor things. The repair is guaranteed for life.

So hopefully this closes an aggravating chapter for this problem. Thanks to Cerberusiam and everyone else who provide information and help on this. Even though these early 3rd Gens are getting long in the tooth this forum still provides valuable information on a regular basis. I'm dreading the day I will have to buy a diesel truck with a cat and DPF and deal with all the problems that come with it. For the most part, my truck as been trouble free and I plan to drive it until there is just no way to keep it on the road any more. Thanks again, everyone.

 

[p-Bar]

Glad your up and running. Curious on how much the ECM rebuild was?

 

[Crunch]

Glad your up and running. Curious on how much the ECM rebuild was?

Flat fee of $250, which included return shipping (UPS Ground) back to me. I paid about $15 for the same shipping to get it to them. If they can't repair a unit, they charge an $89 fee and will "explore" your options. In doing some research on refurbished ECM's I saw prices generally ran in the $500 range (similar price at SIA Electronics). And that got me wondering if it would be worth it to have a spare ECM for road emergencies. While a decent chunk of money, it's not really prohibitive considering how critical the ECM is to vehicles these days. Switching it out can be done on the side of the road, and even if the refurbished ECM isn't perfect, as long as it gets you home it's done its job.

As an aside, the only thing I would consider a glitch was that when I connected the ECM and started the truck the Check Engine light was on. I checked for codes and found 9 active codes. I called them back and was told that those are bench codes they trigger to test the unit. They thought I could clear them myself via the dash. Since I can't, I ended up going to O'Reilly and had them do it. It was free, and Autozone, which was closer and my first stop couldn't do it, either.

 

[p-Bar]

Glad your up and running. I guess we need to draw the line on what extra "stuff" we bring along.

 

[Crunch]

I was really hoping that my post on July 31 was the final chapter in this story, but the saga continues. A week or so after getting the repaired ECM installed I was traveling locally on an Interstate at highway speeds when the the ECM glitched. The check engine light came on and the P2146 code popped up again. The "event" lasted a second or two and corrected itself. The engine returned to full power and ran smooth as silk. Over the next couple of weeks it happened two or three more times, always correcting itself in less than 10 seconds. About 2 weeks ago I was returning home from running errands and stopped at Whataburger for a large order of onion rings. Started the truck and only had three injectors working. Since I was close to my house I limped back to the casa and let the truck sit overnight. The next day I fired it up and the problem hadn't corrected itself, which was a first, as in the past the problem only happened when the engine was hot, correcting itself after it cooled.

The next day I removed the ECM to send it back for a warranty repair. I saved the box they used to return it to me, and when I was packing it up I noticed that there was a crack in the cover plate that the two connector sockets are attached to. The crack started about 2/3 of the way up on the cover plate that is closest to the front of the engine, ran under the sticker SIA Electronics attached (it warns that the warranty is void if the stickers are removed, and there were two or three of those stickers on the ECM). The crack ran down to the bottom of the cover plate, angling out to about 1 3/4" toward the center of the cover plate. I included the crack observation on the paperwork I sent with the ECM. It's now been about 10 days, and I am expecting to hear back from them any day now. The warranty paperwork they sent with the repaired ECM states that the warranty does not cover physical damage, but I am assuming that only means damage caused by the owner, not physical damage caused by a short or heat related to the repair, which is what I believe is the cause of the latest failure. But if that is the cause, there is a good chance that a lot more of the ECM will have to be rebuilt/repaired. There were no other codes, and everything else on the truck worked perfectly, so I'm almost certain that something went wrong with their repair. On the bright side, I am now certain that the problem was with the ECM and not the new injectors.

When it is returned I'll install it and update this thread again.

 

[p-Bar]

Sorry to hear we will wait for your results

 

[Crunch]

Stepped outside this afternoon about 5:00PM and saw a UPS package on my porch. Sure enough, it was the ECM. I hadn't heard anything from SIA, so I was surprised to get the package. I'm sure glad the porch pirates didn't get to it first! 20 minute install, including getting the tools, connecting the battery and putting the tools away. Truck fired right up and ran perfectly. Took it for a 5 mile test drive and had no problems. One bummer was that they couldn't clear the codes they generated when bench testing, but that's a minor issue.

Hopefully this is now fixed for good, but the ticket and hand written notes they sent with the ECM seem like a mixed bag to me. The computer generated ticket reads:

"Nothing open on hi-side switching. Replaced hi-side driver transistor & diode again, in case intermittent."

The previous ticket did not mention the hi-side driver transistor, only the diode and some soldering. Not finding anything open on the hi-side switching is not encouraging to hear.

The hand written note reads:

"Is a scratch from razor blade disassembling unit. Nothing cracked or broke inside."

That was good to hear, as I was worried the casing was cracked. The note continues:

"There is common issue of wire chafing in the harness. Cust. do any troubleshooting since he stated [problem] no longer intermittent? Tech not finding an issue."

Again, not encouraging though the fact that the truck fired right up and ran perfectly after their work is a positive sign. The injectors have been checked and found to be OK, and the ECM has been looked at/repaired twice. So the only other part in the equation seems to be the chafing in the wire harness, which they say is a common issue. If it is chafing, where is the likely location of it going to be--in the open run of the wires or at at/inside the connectors at the ECM or injectors? Since the problem has been the same it makes sense that it is just one or two wires would be causing the problem. And if that's the case, couldn't I just get the connectors (for both the ECM and injector locations) from a junked truck (or even purchase new connectors from a parts supply business) with a few inches of wire, clip the wires from the connectors on my truck (one at a time and about an inch back) and reconnect them to the new connectors with a waterproof splice?

Hopefully this is the end of the saga, but I'm not holding my breath just yet. Once bitten, twice shy.