Cold Start Issue: Possible Injector Problem?

[PPeters]

Little help guys. Last night went to start the truck after sitting for 24 hours in 15 F temps (good cold soak). Had not plugged in the heater, so I cycled the grids twice (waited in between about 5-10 seconds). Turned the key, motor would not catch. Repeated the process again (two cycles with pause), same result. Took 4 tries before she caught, and holy s**t was it rough. Tons of white smoke, took about 5 minutes fort the idle to smooth out. Now before anyone tells me this is normal, my old 92 didn't behave like this, it had to get really cold before I would even get something mildly similar. I have been noticing this to a lesser extent with the onset of colder temps (starting in late october). Some rough idle and white smoke that would last about 2 minutes after startup, beginining with temps about 40F. I have not had the unit back to a dealer since purchase, run standadyne in every tank. All the above symptoms occur without the use of the block heater. Am wondering if I might have a bad injector, seem to recall reading here about injector problems that didn't really surface until cold temps arrived. I have searched the archive, no good hits.

 

[btrom]

Same here

My truck has behaved the same way since temps have gone under 40F. Took it in for the TSB that addresses

this issue but there has been no change. This morning the

temp here in North Jersey was 19F. Waited for the coil light

to go off and started the truck. The smoke covered the

neighbors house! and continue for at least 3 minutes seeming to run on 4 cylinders.



Bill

 

[Alan Reagan]

Sounds like the grids aren't coming on.

 

[sag2]

Sounds like the grids aren't coming on.

That's what I was going to say. Are you sure the grids are heating? If they are not, it is sure to smoke and run rough. If they are, sounds like excessive fuel.

 

[claymike]

Mine does the same thing if I dont plug it in. Misses real bad and covers the neighborhood in blue smoke. When I get time I need to take it in and have the injector kill test done.

 

[DocDetonancour]

I hate to say it, but it sounds like something with the 4. 5? I have never seen smoke from my 355 and would be very disappointed if I did at the temps you guys are reporting. I started my 96 in West Yellowstone after sitting for 24 hours in -36 and not plugged in. Good luck, doc

 

[Alan Reagan]

Mine is starting good here at 20*. I know that's not cold to most of you guys but I don't control the weather.



When you start up, make sure the voltmeter is pulling down (or the lights are dimming) as the grids continue to cycle. If this is not happening, the grids aren't working.

 

[BHolm]

I'm betting on a leaking injector. That is how mine behaved. I brought it in had the test done, #3 was bad, they replaced it, no problems anymore. When they sit the offending injector leaks raw fuel into the cylinder. Not much difference on a warm engine but on a cold one you really notice it. It ran fine off idle too. Mine got bad enough that it was shaking at stoplights.

 

[PPeters]

The grids are cycling, getting light dim and volt meter movement in pattern. Is it possible that they are not working prior to starting, but are working after the motor catches?



Claymike, that's what I've been thinking (injector kill test), remember reading it here somewhere, just can't find it. Something about #5 cylinder being the common one that produces injector problems? Or did I dream that?



Any magic words you have to say to the service mgr to get them to run the kill test? I believe to get them to do the TSB you have to tell them you have reduced mpgs and white smoke on startup, but I'm sure I'll get "... its a diesel, they're all that way"



Thanks guys!



Pat

 

[PPeters]

bholm, just missed ya. I've been noticing some vibration at idle during cold temps within the first 15 minutes of running. Nothing big, kind of like a low level vibration (not drive line). Along with that some loss in mpg's, which I was putting down to colder temps and winter fuel. Now I'm beginning to think otherwise, looks like a visit to the dealer is in order. Should do this anyway, need my door seals replaced too.



Pat

 

[Alan Reagan]

Pat, That's exactly what I told them. White smoke, computer doesn't agree with calculated MPG, and mileage is low. They did the TSB.



You would have to check the grids before starting. On mine, the relay is very audible when it releases as the wait to start light goes out.



Mine also didn't skip and miss on cold starts. It would just blow white smoke for about 3-4 seconds.

 

[claymike]

I used my inferred thermometer the other day after the truck sat all night. 4 of the cylinders were within 5 degrees of each other the other two were about 45 degrees less. I really think I have two bad injectors.

 

[btrom]

Smoke

I took picture of the smoke this morning (5F) They are in my gallery. Truck runs very rough for a couple of minutes

 

[PPeters]

btrom, yeah, just like that, maybe even worse. Picture destroyer in full convoy screening mode.



claymike, verrrry interesting. Need to check if we have an ir gun at work to test that theory.



Gonna visit the dealer soon.



Pat

 

[claymike]

Well according to the dealer if you have a leaking injector the truck will not start. I am having a hard time believing this but he said that they went to a class and put a nick on a injector to make it leak and the engine would not start because all of the injectors share the preasure. Seems kind of funny you can shut off an injector and the truck will still run.

 

[Scooby]

I'm going through this right now. Truck has been at the dealer. The other day when I started it (at 17 degrees) it blew so much smoke that I thought the fire department might show up. I left the truck at the dealer and told them to do a cold soak start. Naturally, it was a little warmer then next morning (yesterday) and they said they went through the whole engine and it is just fine.



"These diesels just run rough when they are cold - your truck is normal" - was their response. I'm thinking "IDIOT!" in my head. My 01 didn't do this. A sister truck (albeit and '03) to mine at work doesn't do this. I think I can determine wtf "normal" is... . or perhaps "Acceptable" should be a better word.



Like everyone else, the truck clears up and seems to idle fine thereafter.



Then we start rolling and hear the howling and whining from the rear end - yeat another story for another post - also being "addressed" at the dealer right now.

 

[PPeters]

OK, here's the latest... .



Just got off the phone with dealer, they applied 2 tsb's; one for white smoke, the other for poor fuel mileage. Don't have the numbers, but will post them. They said they performed the injector kill test, all injectors OK. This may make everyone laugh, he goes on to tell me that with these motors you need to run multiple heat cycles if the block heater is not plugged in and the temps are below 20F. Now I know other guys here have no problem lower than this, my particular experience required 4 cycles just to get it to catch and run (horribly), and I explained that to the service mgr. He then backpedalled and said "... well, that's what our top diesel guy says. Maybe one of the tsb's we applied will fix your particular problem. "



We'll see, I'm picking it back up tonight. BTW, I made the appointment last week to have this work done, as well as replace the door seals. They did everything but put in the new door seals, they "... need to order them in. We'll reschedule when they arrive. " Thanks.



Pat

 

[rashwor]

btrom

my smoke matches yours on cold mornings. Mine did not do this in cold weather until about the last 3 weeks. Does it with less than cold temperaturs now (getting worse). Leads me to believe it is a bad injector. I am going to try to get it to the dealer before long. Runs great once she warms up.

 

[Alan Reagan]

The TSB is 18-037-04 for poor mileage, white smoke. They did it on mine and it seems to have worked. Occasionally when it's about 40*, for some reason it doesn't start the first time. My 01 never made a complete revolution without cranking. I think these are like the Furd's. The engine has to go around some before the computer lets it start. Since the TSB, I haven't had any white smoke and my mileage went up about 1. 5 mpg. That's with 2500 miles on it. So some of that is the result of getting broken in plus the first oil change. The TSB did give me a feeling of more power and better acceleration.

 

[jnelson]

Mine white smokes on starts - cold or not. Im taking it in to have the 3rd round of tests done to see if it is the #5 or #3 injector. STAR is making the dealer run up to 3 tests. If these three tests are inconclusive to STAR, the mechanic will drop my ATS manifold back to see which cylinder is smoking as the exhaust gas leaves the head. This will certainly tell them which injetor(s) are bad.



I could have left the truck there the first time but their lead diesel tech leaves on Mon-Wed for training on the new trucks. So I have been droppping it off on Thurs. morning and picking it up in the afternoon. Ill be leaving it there until it is done this time.



After initial start up it does not smoke and runs great.