cold temp and gelling

[Tractorat]

This is probably a stupid question. But, how cold does if have to get before I start worrying about fuel gelling ? Its going to get down to about 17 degress tonight. I was going to go down to Shucks to get a bottle of Power Service, but they are out.



Thanks,

TRat

 

[jelag]

The only real answer to this question is to call the people who supply the fuel to the location where you buy it.....



We find here in Spokane that the fuel is never blended down fast enough in a station. . we only use a card lock where we know that in a cold snap they will go to the tanks in th ground and treat the existing fuel... usually as it gets colder the tanker will be treated but the fuel company won't treat whats in the ground at the station. . so your mixing blended fuel with un-blended fuel...



So what's in the station is say... good to 15* F. and they drop a load good to 0* and whats in the tank and whats in the tanker are the same amount... so you have a 50-50 blend... so the over all load now in the ground is good to about 7* or so...



The same is true if you fill up and drive to a cold climate... . your risking a problem... .



So I suggest that you go to your local farm store, or truck stop and buy a gallon of chemical and blend your own fuel down... . usually a gallon will treat 300 gallons and drop the gel point about 30 * F... We buy a special mix by the 5 gal pail... 8 oz treats 125 gal of fuel and drops the gel point 20* F. If we are going someplace that is - 20* F we put in 16 oz to 125 gal instead of the 8 oz... .



As you can see this can be very confusing..... last winter here... a school bus fleet of 80 buses gelled on the morning run to get kids because their fuel supplier didn't plan ahead... . because of the cost... . and that's the key... . the fuel supplier doesn't want to do this because of the cost... . so its a step process... just enough to get by.....



Well one simple question and one long answer... .

 

[DWeiler]

DAM COLD UP HERE last few days----went down to -30C last night(-41C with the wind chill),i'm running Stanadyne for a bit,noticed that my fuel pressure is down abit too,even with new filters just put on + additive,lost 2-3psi,don't know why but the Airdog still maintained 15psi. ---Jetlag---glad your not here now and if so in the near future---dress for the cold/you and your rig-- the roads are slick. . DW

 

[mhenon]

This is probably a stupid question. But, how cold does if have to get before I start worrying about fuel gelling ? Its going to get down to about 17 degress tonight. I was going to go down to Shucks to get a bottle of Power Service, but they are out.



Thanks,

TRat

I'll let ya know. It's going down to 7F tonite. Added a little Power Service (white) to the fuel so it should be fine.

Mike

 

[jelag]

DW - we have a salesmen and warehouse in Edmonton and we make a monthly trip there... I've been trying to buy an Espar for a couple of my trucks but at this point haven't made a deal... .



10 years ago we sent one of our large trucks to Edmonton and he fueled up here in Spokane and the truck gelled on the highway, the driver noticed the loss of power and pulled along side a large building... I think we spent close to a grand getting it running and almost a week of down time... . We understand gelling very well... .



Jim

 

[DaveHess]

Just my . 02. It was 2 below here in ND this morning. I'm still running #2 with a bottle of Stanadyne. Ran like normal... ... .

 

[Tractorat]

Thanks, I was pretty sure there wasn't a problem. But I havent added any additives for a couple of tankfulls and my local Schucks was out of Power Service. And its a ways to go to get some Stanodyne.



I dont think its been this cold since I first got this truck in late 01. But I used to have an 83 Chev (at least they called it a diesel). When I had it, it got down below 0 a few times and I never had a problem with that. (Well, I went thru injector plugs very regularly, but thats another story)

 

[DWeiler]

DW - we have a salesmen and warehouse in Edmonton and we make a monthly trip there... I've been trying to buy an Espar for a couple of my trucks but at this point haven't made a deal... .



10 years ago we sent one of our large trucks to Edmonton and he fueled up here in Spokane and the truck gelled on the highway, the driver noticed the loss of power and pulled along side a large building... I think we spent close to a grand getting it running and almost a week of down time... . We understand gelling very well... .



Jim

Jim---i'v noticed from some of your prior post that your up this way a bit so that why the comment :-laf . Edmonton usually gets colder than us but we are blessed with "chinooks" in our region(warm air flow from the pacific instead of the arctic--i think)one day its minus -30C and a few days later it 10+C go figure. No gelling problem this week though with my company 01 Ford --7. 3,running some antigell,but without at those temps it has and will freeze ,high idle runs/engages(1200rpm) pretty well all day too when i leave it running between calls.

 

[mhenon]

I'll let ya know. It's going down to 7F tonite. Added a little Power Service (white) to the fuel so it should be fine.

Mike

It was around 4 degrees F this morning. Didn't start the Dodge but the Jetta fired right up and it was cold soaked with no heat.

Anyway, looks like no fuel gelling above 0 F.

Mike

 

[jelag]

Guys remember that if your in an area that sees cold weather and its predictable with a long range weather forecast your fuel companies might start to blend down... but what catches us is we'll get an unexpected cold front move in and nothing at the stations is protected...



At 115* across the desert the AC won't keep and I know at -20* the heater won't hardly keep up... . at least my new jeep puts out nice hot air in 5-7 min... where the 1-T dually without a load won't make hot air in much less than 30 min... .



Have a great evening gentlemen... .



Jim

 

[cojhl2]

When winter gets near,, Power Service in the tank,, no exceptions regardless if the dealer blended or not!

 

[mhenon]

When winter gets near,, Power Service in the tank,, no exceptions regardless if the dealer blended or not!

I agree. Why risk it?

Mike

 

[JJW_ND]

Good fuel treatment is enough in lower 48

In my experience with typical ND winter temps, a good fuel treatment and straight #2 is all that is needed. Treatments I have used are Stanadyne and Amalgamated. They have got me by for over 10 years and 280K miles. Truck stops along I94 here in ND sell straight #2 all winter. Smaller staitions that have only one Diesel pump will have to sell blend. Larger stations have #2, #1 and Kerosene.



There has been alot of talk about the fuel heater and its lack of need. I think it is very usefell when pushing #2 (even with treatment) in very cold temps. The treatment keeps it moving but the heater keeps it flowing through the filter... . most common gell block point.



JMHO... .



jjw

ND

 

[Andersonville]

The #2 you are buying at the stations is already treated or it would be gelling the fuel filter at the pump! I have seen this happen when an unexpected cold snap gelled the untreated fuel in the pump. The new ULSD is supposedly good to 6 degrees without treatment. I still put HOWES in it anyway. Always buy fuel at a major dealer that has high diesel sales. Don't buy at places that rarely sell diesel. Good Luck

 

[JJW_ND]

Treated???

I doudt there is much if any treatment. If you run it straight from the pump and do not have a fuel heater (big trucks) or keep your engine running 24/7 it will gell. Some Cenex stations have a notice inside the store with warnings their #2 is untreated. Most larger stations that have "straight #2" have underground tanks. I have seen smaller stations diasble pump stations when it gets cold fast... . #2 that does not pump.



jjw

ND

 

[cojhl2]

To the best of my knowledge in Iowa (where I lived for 20 yrs) the truckstops mixed #1 with #2.

 

[jelag]

Guys... the truck stops don't do a thing but pump the fuel... To my knowledge there is no single person on duty in a truck stop with the ability to understand how much fuel is in the ground, what it will currently gell at... and how much additive to add to prevent this... . plus no one there has the ability to mix #1 and #2... . how are they going to do this... the blending has to be done by the fuel distributor... at the bulk plant and is usually added to the tanker and it mixes on the road to be dumped... .



Fuel underground is is close to 55 * F... . it will pump out of most systems... remember that the lines are underground as well... it doesn't take much warm fuel to unplug a pump and put nice warm fuel in your tank to gel 45 min's later as it cools down... .



Your not thinking through the process and it will give you grief if you let this slip by. .



Jim

 

[jkalchik]

The station I fill up at in southeastern Minnesota had a sign at the counter that the #2 had been blended to a 10 degree F mix. That's nice..... it was zero F when I came to work this morning. Stanadyne is my friend.

 

[cojhl2]

Truckstop/Distributer, I incorrectly used the term interchangeably.



What I should have said is that the fuel that comes out of the truckstop is blended. I have no idea who or where it is done.



But it is for sure they(neither truckstop or distributer) add an additive.

 

[mhenon]

Truckstop/Distributer, I incorrectly used the term interchangeably.



What I should have said is that the fuel that comes out of the truckstop is blended. I have no idea who or where it is done.



But it is for sure they(neither truckstop or distributer) add an additive.

cojhl2, It is the distributor that adds the lubricity additive before getting sent out to the various filling stations. My problem is the minimum spec's on the ULSD even "with" the correct amount of lubricant. The petro industry went with a maximum wear scar of 520 microns. Bosch and others fought to get that reduced to 420 microns and really like to see no more than 350 or so (don't quote me on these figures).

This ULSD is pretty rough stuff on moving parts. . like a close tolerance VP44. It's more like kerosene than D#2. What if that new guy at the fuel rack adds 1 gallon of lube instead of the 10 gallons required for a tanker load of fuel? That 520 micron wear scar could double and there goes the pump.

I don't have a problem with ULSD and think it will be good for diesel engines in general. But... just in case... I'm going to add something (PS, Stanadyne, biodiesel, etc) on the assumption that it's too dry and might damage the injection system.

Mike