Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) cold weather, hard start

[TDragna]

My neighbor has a 97 ctd and as the temps drop it doesn't want to start. He said it takes 9 or 10 hits on the starter before it will start. Any one had the same problem? Thanks Tom D

 

[Jeff H]

I've been know to have those issues at 15 below zero.

How cold outside was it?

Sounds like intake heaters went south.

Usually can hear the relays click when the wait to start comes on. Don't get that click confused with the fuel shut down solenoid click. The voltage is much lower when the heaters are warming up. When the heaters shut off. Then the your voltage gauge will rise a little. Then it should start.

The temp sensor could be bad also.

 

[mechanic]

I've been know to have those issues at 15 below zero.

How cold outside was it?

Sounds like intake heaters went south.

Usually can hear the relays click when the wait to start comes on. Don't get that click confused with the fuel shut down solenoid click. The voltage is much lower when the heaters are warming up. When the heaters shut off. Then the your voltage gauge will rise a little. Then it should start.

The temp sensor could be bad also.

I would agree with Jeff H only to add that if the heaters are ok, then check the fuel hoses with close attention to the return hose. The one you can see but is out of reach from top or bottom. When it gets colder the fuel contracts causing a higher vacuum in the fuel tank and system. And the steel fuel line contracts and the flex hose contracts (the wall gets thinner) and this can allow a small amount of air enter the system. This can only happen when cold at first, but will get worse. If you remove the left front inter fender liner, you can get to the line easier. I put pull pins in mine to make it easier to remove to access that side of the engine. The ECT does send signals to the computer to turn on the heaters when cold enough to need them. If it is has turned liberal and is lying, then the heaters won't come on.

 

[MHalloran]

This happened to me a couple winters ago. Since then I've been adding anti-gel to the fuel in the winter & it's been fine in the cold. When's the last time the fuel filter was changed? Block heater in use?

 

[TDragna]

Thanks fellas for the replys. I live in the desert and when I'm talking cold I mean 40 degrees(above). I'll give my neighbor your answers and see if we can't find the problem. Thanks, TDragna

 

[PAbernathy]

How Much Current for Intake Heaters?

... Sounds like intake heaters went south.

Usually can hear the relays click when the wait to start comes on. Don't get that click confused with the fuel shut down solenoid click. The voltage is much lower when the heaters are warming up. When the heaters shut off. Then the your voltage gauge will rise a little. Then it should start...

Here in Illinois, I have been having trouble starting after work when the temp is below freezing. I need more information on how it is supposed to work.



When I go out after working 10+hours, the truck is as cold as outside. I turn on the key, and watch the "Wait to Start" light on the dash. I listen for the click/clunk of a relay (like my old Chevy had for the glow plugs). Also, I expected to see (and have not noticed) some ever-so-slight dimming of lights or slowing down of the fan with subsequent brightening/speeding up when the cycle is done. Nothing noticable though.



When the "Wait" is over, I crank. It usually fires immediately, then stumbles and dies if I let go :{ . If I then hold the starter on for about 10 seconds, it does fire intermittantly while cranking, sounding like every third cylinder hits. During this 10 second crank, it will fire more and more frequently until the RPMs exceed the cranking speed and I can let go. It then stumbles and smokes like a pre-pubescent bully for another 15 seconds before smoothing out.



So, I am hoping that there is something missing from normal operation. I have been scoping out Christmas light plugs around the mall where I work to consider if I can sneak in a block heater plug :-laf , but that is _undesirable_ (and should be unnecessary).



Let me know what I can check or do to verify the equipment.



Thanks!



Phil

 

[bmoeller]

What is the idle speed set at? Should be around 750RPMs w/ the truck in drive (auto) and A/C on. I can start my truck when it is only 30* outside without running the grids. I do have to push down on the throttle, like you would on a fuel-injected gasser.



I suspect the grid heaters aren't operating. There are 2 relays. One for each heater. They are on the driver-side fender. Check to see if the relays are working, or even getting juice. Check to see if the coils are clicking on the relays.

 

[PAbernathy]

bmoeller, thanks for your comments. Idle is about 800 rpm in neutral. Today, after work (about 30 degreesF), I cycled the Wait twice, just to see what it did. But I did not notice any change in the Voltmeter, light intensity, or fan speen after the Wait light extinguished. I think the grid heaters are not working, but will have to check with a voltmeter.



After waiting twice, I put about 1/4 go pedal, and the truck did fire up quickly. I just feel that with the computer automatically controlling all the stuff that it has to control, I shouldn't have to touch anything. Most injected cars that I have driven (rentals, etc) had a warning to leave the gas pedal alone during starting, since the computer was determining all the proper mixes and speeds based on block temp and outside temp.



Well, I am trying to coordinate my schedule to get time with a fellow TDR member who has graciously offered to "help me" change the oil, filter and fuel filter (at his garage, using his tools). I am overdue on my first (to me) oil change, and I will find out what is going on with the grid heaters then. BTW, he thinks the lift pump is causing the cold weather hard-starts. Fuel pressure gauge will be my next purchase.



Thanks again for your help.



Phil

 

[Dennis Garrett]

Don't let the cycling amp meter fool you. It will still do that even with one relay & grid not working. While it's cycling, check for voltage at BOTH leads where they bolt to the grids. The relays have to be replaced as a set, they are built onto a common bracket on the fender well. You need both of them working for a clean cold start.

 

[bmoeller]

Don't let the cycling amp meter fool you. It will still do that even with one relay & grid not working.

True, but both heaters aren't always turned on. Sometimes only one is "lit". Depends on how cold it is. The voltmeter will move with one "lit", but not as far as if both are. I see 8v with both on and about 11v with one on.

I just feel that with the computer automatically controlling all the stuff that it has to control, I shouldn't have to touch anything. Most injected cars that I have driven (rentals, etc) had a warning to leave the gas pedal alone during starting, since the computer was determining all the proper mixes and speeds based on block temp and outside temp.

The fuel injection pump on a '97 12v is mechanically controlled. No ECM involved in engine operation, like the 24v is. The 12v trucks have a PCM not an ECM