Collision Frame and Driveline Damage

[Mr.Goat]

About 2 weeks ago I was hit head on in a snow storm when a fellow lost control of his car. The truck suffered frame as well as front driveline damage. The front axle housing was driven back into the bottom of the oil pan on the Cummins. It also drove the front drive shaft back as to crack the housing of the tranfer case.



The parts and bits list is extensive. But I think you have the idea she took a fairly hard blow. I have a few questions and if anybody could help out it would be appreciated.



1. Dealing with the insurance folks has been frustrating to say the least. I would prefer they write the truck off or at the very least replace the frame with all the other parts. They only wish to straighten the frame and replace parts.



How do I deal or get leverage on these folks so that they will replace or repair the truck to my satisfaction?





2. These new hydroformed frames are not to be drilled or welded. Would it also be a wise "No No" not to bend them back into shape. Will I have problems down the road as a result of pulling or carrying heavy loads?





3. As stated above the Cummins took a blow to the oil pan. What is behind the oil pan that could have also been hit? Any thoughts on this one?





I'am fine. Not a scatch. I just opened the door and stepped out. I can't say that for the other fellow. This truck saved me from serious injury, and possibly my life. The least I can do is try to save it or give it a decent burial.



Thanks Pete

 

[ntenna]

Man!



Glad you are OK, says alot for the truck. Did the air bag inflate?



1. Your insurance or theirs? If theirs get your insurance to step in and up the ante for a new truck, ie you say this repair plan is not acceptable, so I am asking you to replace the truck, and then they go after the other insurance company to get their money back. Of course, there is always the nagging neck ache which magically gets better when a new truck arrives. Have actually seen that done; on a deal where our daughter was hit in the rear, the other people's insurance offered to replace the car IF she signed papers agreeing not to file an injury suit!



2. Not enough of an expert on these frames to say exactly what the result of heating and pulling is, but do enough structural work in other areas to say that I would be suspicious of significant loss of strength.



3. Engine should have a new pan anyway so as not to allow distortion leaks at block, and could be checked for overall damage at that point.



In general, that kind of shock to the driveline results in lingering issues. I rebuilt a Volvo when I was a teenager which had 42 miles on it and had hit a power pole head on, just right of center. Got it really cheap, but... .



Slightly bent two-piece driveshaft damaged center bearing at 2000 miles, transmission seal went at 3000 (left-over shaft damage) and rear axle carrier went at 20,000 miles. The entire rear axle was bent, binding the axle shafts in the carrier bearings. Had to find another whole axle.



If you do keep the truck, be absolutely certain that both axles are laser checked for bends and twists, and they should replace the transfer case (I mean whole new unit) and all the shafts.



Just don't know about that frame, though. Hope someone else here can give you a good answer.

 

[MMeier]

Mr. Goat, hire an attorney, most insurance thieves (oops,I mean companies) do not like to deal with individuals in situations such as this. Any decent one will usually consult with you once without charging you a fee. I would be very leery of any frame repairs being done to a vehicle that would be used as many of us do. Anyhow best of luck on your delema.

 

[Casey Balvert]

Pete,



This statement is fromt the shop manual. You may want to contact DC regarding the damage and get their approval for any repair in terms of long term safety. They make the thing and that would go a long way toward forcing the insurance company to do what is right. Some components can be replaced but it appears if damage is beyond the component, the frame needs to be replaced it the damage cannot be pulled out. Make it a safely issue. This section deals with the H section that mounts the spare.



"CAUTION: Do not reuse damaged fasteners, quality

of repair would be suspect. Failure to use only production

fasteners or fasteners of equivalent hardness

can result in loosening or failure. Do not drill

holes in top or bottom frame rail flanges, frame rail

failure can result. When using heat to straighten

frame components do not exceed 566°C (1050°F),

metal fatigue can result.



CAUTION: This procedure is designed to replace

the H-section/spare tire support located at the rear

of the frame assembly. Prior to any cutting, the

vehicle must be mounted on the appropriate frame

repair equipment (“frame rack”), checked with three

dimensional measuring equipment, and the necessary

pull corrections made. If damage remains in

the frame beyond the area covered by this service

part after the pull, the frame must be replaced in its

entirety. "



They are going to have to pull the oil pan as well. Any sign of impact with in internal component such as a scrape inside the pan would raise questions in my mind.



Hope this helps. Good luck



Casey

 

[rbattelle]

:--) I don't have anything useful to contribute... just wanted to wish you best of luck getting this resolved.

 

[pstillo]

Good luck with your claim. If you can't get them to replace the truck. I would trade it in as soon as it is fixed even if you have to take a big loss. When you pick it up make sure all the body panels gaps are the same.

 

[Pit Bull]

I would call them and tell them you have been talking to a freind that is a Lawyer and with your back and neck pain and their not wanting to replace your damaged truck you will give them one chance to reconsider and then you will retain a Lawyer and all bets are off. If they still don't want to replace your truck, find a Lawyer and start seeing a doctor for your back and neck pain. Take some time off work to try and heal. A guy hit me several years ago (head-on) it was his fault. The settlement took 4 years they paid 5 times the total of my cars damage and all of my medical bills. If this is the route you end up taking have your insurance company fix your truck and trade it on a new truck, the lost you take will add into the settlement. Good luck.

 

[wyosteve]

My . 02 fwiw. Yes it is good advice to talk with an attorney, BUT don't necessarily expect miracles. Insurance companies deal with lawyers every day. There is no threat or leverage to saying you'll get an attorney. In one personal experience, the insurance company (State Farm) made the decision right at the beginning of the situation that they were not going to settle under any circumstances because they wanted to get an idea what a jury in the area would award for damages. They did this to guage their handling of future claims. I'm sure this happens quite often. Having said this though, an attorney at least can deal with the typical b. s. the insurance cos. use and relieve your stress and frustration.

 

[$BANKS$rupted]

Originally posted by Pit Bull

I would call them and tell them you have been talking to a freind that is a Lawyer and with your back and neck pain and their not wanting to replace your damaged truck you will give them one chance to reconsider and then you will retain a Lawyer and all bets are off. If they still don't want to replace your truck, find a Lawyer and start seeing a doctor for your back and neck pain. Take some time off work to try and heal. A guy hit me several years ago (head-on) it was his fault. The settlement took 4 years they paid 5 times the total of my cars damage and all of my medical bills. If this is the route you end up taking have your insurance company fix your truck and trade it on a new truck, the lost you take will add into the settlement. Good luck.

Could not have said it better! Go with the you can pay me now, or you can pay me out the arse later attitude! Good Luck!

 

[Philip]

Where is this work being done?



If the dealer is doing it ask them if your truck will be under warranty when they are done. Some dealers are voiding the warranty's on a vehicle when it is involved in a wreck. So I would be checking on this. If they say void. Then the truck will never be back to the same condition ever. Tell the insurance company they need to replace it.

 

[Mr.Goat]

Gentlemen



Thanks for all the kind words and good advice. You have confirmed some trains of thought I already had and gave me some new ones to work with.



This is the beauty of these sites, there is a wealth of unlimited knowledge and experiences out there that one can tap into.



Thanks again. I will keep you posted. Pete

 

[Dean Upson]

Pete,



Nothing to add, but I am glad to hear that you are okay. Good luck.



Dean

 

[JMullens]

frame

Hey guys, your assumptions about this new frame are correct. This new hydro frame is very heat sensitive, I work for the Dana Corp. , and I build the hydro frames for Ford Expedition and Navigator, and the 2004 F-150's. Too much weld in an area can weaken these frames, but these frames are engineered with crush points in the front and rear, I have not been under my new ctd yet but it should be the same. These crush points can be cut off and replaced, but like everyone else I would not keep the truck long after repair.

 

[Mr.Goat]

Well it only took the insurance co. 41 days to finally decide to write the beast off. It was a slow persistant struggle, but finally practical mathematics and common sense prevailed.



I had a provision in my policy which gave me full purchase replacement cost's for two years without depreciation. I also got paid full receipt cost's on the extras such as sprayed box liner, running boards, wheel well liners, etc.



I'am very pleased with out come, as the alternatives of having a straitened frame, repaired drive line, with no drive line warrenty from DC. This prospect was not sitting well with me. Plus here in Ontario after a vehicle has been in a collision, full disclosure to the new buyer upon resale of total damages is mandatory. This devalued the resale price approx. $10000.



Needless to say 5 min. after receiving the news I called the dealer and ordered another identical to the first. So the wait is on once more. It should only be the standard 6-8 weeks this time around.



On a positive note I suffered no ill effects from the collision, the truck took it all. I didn't care much for the Breman running boards they looked nice but beccause of there design didn't stop much of the crud from flying up the side of the truck.

Does anyone have any other suggestions fro fiberglass running boards? I was thinking of maybe a combination of bushwhacker flares and maybe some nerph bars?? The bottom lower panels are silver and I still wanted to carry the silver around the wheel wells for looks as well as prvide some road crud protection.



Any suggestions would be appreciated . All in all I would'nt wish this little experience on anybody. But at least we are alive and well to tell the tale. Pete

 

[crebelein]

pete,

you're very lucky. i was in an accident on feb 1 where my truck (ford ranger) was parked on the side of the road and got t-boned by a lady going 75mph w/me in it. i was thrown from the truck and suffered broken ribs, i banged up my knee, hurt my neck and back, and was left w/a concussion (sp?). the resulting damage in the truck was a bent frame, demolished box, banged up the cab some, broke the front door (it was open when i got hit and i flew into it), bent both rear leaf sets, bent axel housing, broke off rear wheel (sheared off the axel), etc. the insurance company (st farm) is offering me $2800 for all the repairs. i've asked for only $7000 (i'm not fixing it either, i have a buyer for it as is). met life, the liable insurance company has not yet come back w/a number. it's been nearly 2 months. i'm glad to hear you came out of it as well as you did... i can only hope... .

 

[Dean Upson]

Glad you made out, Pete. Main thing is everyone is okay. Vehicles can be replaced, even if it takes a while .



Dean