Colorado Bio Fuel Seminar

[BarryG]

I got a pm from a member about a seminar with hands on that sounds interesting and thought I would pass on the info. II will be out of town so I can't make it. Below is the text of the message.



Biodiesel workshop-Sept 29, 2003

Barry here's an event for local TDR members:

Biodiesel Production Workshop

http://www.boulderbiodiesel.com

Monday, Sept. 29, 1pm

1855 38th St.



Interested in Biodiesel Production?



Boulder Biodiesel will present an overview of establishing a sustainable biodiesel production system. The workshop will focus on low-cost, commonly available production equipment that can be applied locally, as well as internationally. The presentation will be followed by a biodiesel production workshop where participants will learn the fundamentals of converting vegetable oil into biodiesel fuel and building the equipment to do so. This is a hands-on workshop, where participants will make their own small biodiesel batches and help produce a 50 gallon batch with a biodiesel processor built from a 55 gallon drum.



The interactive presentation will focus on how small-scale biodiesel production can be applied to your individual lifestyle or to be implemented at a community level for a sustainable fuel economy. Biodiesel production gives the community its own tools for self-sufficiency and economic development, while benefiting the environment.



For more information and to register, please visit http://www.sustainableresources.org





I would encourage anyone who can make it to go if for no other reason than getting some first hand knowledge about bio-diesel.

 

[greyghost]

I don't know if they'll let me back into the USS... , I mean Peoples Republic of Boulder.



Garrett

 

[jrandol]

darnit, sure wish I could go but 1pm? What, does the boulderites not have careers and such?

 

[BarryG]

Have to agree with both of you. You would think that they might get a much better response or turnout if it was on a weekend. Of course they could be thinking that if they have it on a weekend it might cause an influx of infidels to Boulder. Just funnin no offense to any Boulder members.

 

[jrandol]

Maybe its an attempt to keep the big loud stinky diesels out of Boulder. I bet there are 20-30 Jetta TDI owners there though. No offense intended to the TDI owners. Man if I could do the bio-diesel thang I would save some real bucks. I spend about $500 in Diesel alone



Jeff

 

[milehiscott]

I wasn't able to go to the demo but, I spoke with the Boulder Bio-diesel guys today. The reason that the demo was at the weird time is that is was a session in a week long convention at CU.

Anyhow, they have a bio-fuel that is ASTM certified. They buy it from another company. They have some there that they make but they say that they are not happy with its quality yet. The two guys I spoke with seemed to be pretty clear about the chemistry of the fuel. They said it has better lubricity than diesel, lower BTUs but higher cetane. On the down side it has a high gel point, around 20 F. Therefore you need to put in additives or mix with diesel for the winter. It seems to give more power, but they didn't have any data to back it up.

Here's the real kicker: The price.

For the ASTM certified fuel: $2. 75/ gal for non-members. It is $50/ year to become a member then the price goes all the way down to $2. 50/gal. :--) :--) :--) :--) :--) :--) :--) :--)

That kind of made me go home happy with my oil infested diesel.

I think it is a good idea, but not at twice the price.

Scott

 

[jrandol]

I agree Mile High, those prices are just a mile to high for me!! Seems like I have read that a guy can make his own with a little experience under his belt and can be done for less or right at $1. 00 per gallon. Heck, we oughta get all the local TDR guys together and make our own stuff and start saving on fuel prices!!



Jeff

 

[milehiscott]

Jeff,

You may be on to something here. I was giving some thought to that also. When I spoke with the Boulder guys they said it cost them about $. 88- $1. 00/gal. to make their home brew. They just weren't happy with the quality yet. I am definitely in favor of quality fuel. I'm not willing to run yesterday's frys through my engine. However, I would be willing to help out on a group project of this nature.

If you look at their web site (see Barry's post above) they have some good info. I have seen some other sites dealing with this that just run the grease through some filters and call it good. I don't think it takes much of a chemist to know that that can't be good in the long run.





What I can contribute:

1. I have a Biology degree.

1a. That means I suffered through organic chemistry and have spent time in a lab doing this kind of stuff.

1b. I already own safety goggles.

2. I am willing to help work on this project.



What I don't have:

1. A garage that can handle this type of equipment.

2. Any money that can go toward the equipment. Sorry that's what happens when you go back to school. :{



Scott

 

[BarryG]

I did a little looking at the website and those guys are running 80-100% biodiesel they say with no ill effects to the engine. That I am skeptical of but I do not anything about the stuff. All you really hear about is like 20-30%bio fuel. No wonder it gels up but even if you cut it with say 50% "real" diesel and added some almagamated additive or something that might still be cost effective. It is certainly an intersting concept and probably worth checking into more.



By the way I have a pretty scratched up pair of safety glasses, guess that means they worked and I have a degree in telecommunications management will that help. I am willing to help make it just not sure I am willing to run it (at least yet). Any takers on who will run the first batch in their tank?

 

[milehiscott]

They said that the only problems that they have had with the fuel is when they put it into an older vehicle. It seems to knock loose particulates in the tank, so they use up filters pretty fast until the system gets cleaned out. They are also only running the 100% with the certified fuel, not the home brew.

I think I would like to nominate your truck for the first tank!!!

Scott

 

[BarryG]

Scott only after you pry the fuel cap out of my cold dead fingers. Just kidding there. I think the biofuel is definitely something to check into as it could be a great alternative. I am no tree hugger by any means but the idea certainly has merit. I like to think I have an open mind (though most who know me might disagree) but I just don't have enough information to satisfy my own concerns. I can say that I for one am going to dig deeper into this stuff to try and disprove or prove them for myself. I do know one thing I am not paying 2. 50 a gallon for bio fuel but if my concerns are alleviated and the price comes down on the bio, or the price goes up on the regular or the home brew stuff can work equally as well I would be willing to use it. One other thing to note is there are some pretty good tax breaks on setting up an alternative fuel "refinery facility" and "station/refueling facility" for personal use and even better if you allow others to refuel from the facility as well.

 

[milehiscott]

Barry,

I understand what you are saying. I'm in much the same place. The idea of clean, cheap fuel that doesn't depend on foreign oil is a good idea to me. However, when the cost is twice as high and it is unreliable it looses it's appeal.

One other question I have. Do you still have to pay road tax on homebrew?

Scott

 

[jrandol]

Originally posted by BarryG

Scott only after you pry the fuel cap out of my cold dead fingers. Just kidding there. I think the biofuel is definitely something to check into as it could be a great alternative. I am no tree hugger by any means but the idea certainly has merit. I like to think I have an open mind (though most who know me might disagree) but I just don't have enough information to satisfy my own concerns. I can say that I for one am going to dig deeper into this stuff to try and disprove or prove them for myself. I do know one thing I am not paying 2. 50 a gallon for bio fuel but if my concerns are alleviated and the price comes down on the bio, or the price goes up on the regular or the home brew stuff can work equally as well I would be willing to use it. One other thing to note is there are some pretty good tax breaks on setting up an alternative fuel "refinery facility" and "station/refueling facility" for personal use and even better if you allow others to refuel from the facility as well.

Wow, Barry please elaborate on this. Tax Breaks, Jeff likes alot. Lets do this thing!



Jeff

 

[sbentz]

The Diesel Dragster loves Biodiesel

Barry, have not had a chance to call you. We took the dragster out last week, and ran it on 100% biodiesel from Blue Sun out of Longmont.



We went 9. 301, faster than ever. The stuff is cool. Less white smoke when cold, faster turbo spool up, and just sounded better.



I have not downloaded the data recorder yet to see the EGT's. We plan on running it more. There is a retail store in BOulder, but another about to open in north denver, but I am swore to secrecy, as they want to do a press event. For B20, (20% Bio, 80% petro) it is 20 cents more or so. You could buy a small drum of 100% and mix, or play.



Everyone should stay away from the brew it yourself, as we have seen some odd mixes, and inconsistent cetane levels. Rebrewed fry oil is a easy gell in the winter. The soy and other seed based virgin stuff seems to be the ticket!

 

[banzaitoyota]

My local fuel distributor carries a 20% biodiesel mixture. It sells for 1. 47/gal vs 1. 39/gal for dino-diesel. I have run it in my 2 diesel tractors (Kubota G188 and New Holland TC35D) . No problems



This is the "brand" I'm running



http://www.biog-3000.com/index.htm

 

[milehiscott]

Banzai,

Where are you getting the fuel?

Scott

 

[banzaitoyota]

I get mine at the United Energy Terminal in Aiken SC, I didn't see this was in the Central forum

 

[milehiscott]

banzaitoyota,

That might be a little far of a commute for fuel.

Scott