Comments on Warranty from Banks

[fest3er]

Originally posted by Steve St. Laurent

... This is one of the reasons that it is repeated over and over in the magazine "I AM MY OWN WARRANTY STATION" when it comes to increasing power. If I'm wrong in some way with what I posted here please let me know. JMHO, but increasing power in ANY way shape or form (no matter who's products are used) puts your warranty in potential jeopardy. Many of us are fully aware of that (partially because of the magazine) and many vendors state exactly that.

I think it comes down to this:

1. MM says the mfr cannot deny warranty coverage simply because a 3rd party part was installed - the mfr must show that the 3rd party part caused the failure.
   
2. Banks and other power enhancement mfrs should properly warn customers that their products can cause failures that won't be covered by DC. As clearly as they tout their products' benefits, they should also tout the disadvantages.
   
3. Banks and other power enhancement mfrs should pay for repairs when their products cause failures that were not explicitly excluded from the the product's warranty.
   
4. Warranties are communications from the mfr to the consumer. Like most things involving the thought-to-word-to-thought translation process, warranties are often flawed, incomplete and abused. They often aren't worth the paper on which they're printed.
   
5. Life is too short to spend it flogging dead horses.
   

I shall conclude by gauchely ignoring item 5, above, and flogging:



You are your own warranty station. Disregard any and all manufacturer warranties. Fully comprehend the consequences of your modifications. Accept that you will pay when something breaks. Be pleasantly surprised each time you do not have to pay.



Do this and you'll lower both your stress level and your cash, whilst increasing your pleasure. Taking personal responsibility does have its penalties. And rewards!



Fest3er

 

[1tuffram]

Just for kicks I may as well throw in a post on this issue. The new Banks warranty disclaimer is vague and clear as mud. Sounds like they are using the usless MM Act angle to mislead customers. Makes for a good sales tactic.



We all know DC will void our warranty at the slightest hint of any power mods (It's common knowledge DC is always looking for some reason to void warranties). I am a believer in the "I am my own warranty station" motto, just to get that out of the way.



My question to Banks regards who is going to eat the cost of drivetrain repairs when DC laughs the customer out of the service dept??? The commonly accepted answer would be the customer, but your warranty disclaimer may leave some poor unexpecting Banks customer confused. Pete T you make claim all Banks products are tested, tested, tested and your power systems are conservativly designed to not exceed the breaking point of the drivetrain components seeing this newly added Banks power. I realize Banks can only test so many drivetrains, etc. but even with all the testing eventually some customer will have a transmission, etc which can't hold the power your testing showed otherwise. So what is Banks position if something does break and it was installed according to your specifications? Are you going to stand behind all your testing and engineering and pay for the repairs? After all you imply this should not happen because of all your reseach & development and conservative rated power outputs which goes into your products.



Do you care to answer this pointless question? If so then get to the point and stop dancing around the issue. Yes or no, will Banks stand behind a failure caused by thier product which has been installed and used in accordance to thier standards (not exceeding vehicle weight ratings, etc... )? I am going to really step out on a limb (and probably out on line) by guessing your answer is NO, Banks is not responsible for any damages caused by your stuff. So maybe your warranty disclaimer needs to be updated again to reflect the true nature of how things will go down when Banks power mods cause drivetrain failures.

 

[John Berger]

Originally posted by NVR FNSH

Since you paid your $35. 00 and that gives you the right to be the mouthpiece please enlighten us all to the events at May Madness.



Brian

And you paid your $35. 00 to voice your opinion. We're all a mouthpiece here, to some extent. Let this go where it's going to go. I, for one am enjoying the back and forth here. There are way to many manufacturers who get you in the door, sell you something and move you out for the next suck... um consumer to step in. I for one am glad that Bill is being as ornery and vehement as he is because more people ought to take this responsibility upon themselves when it comes to dealing with the manufacturer of any given product. I've been on the wrong end of rude, inconsiderate and ignorant people after they have sold me their product. I've taken the nice approach and in turn I was given a jar of vaseline and told to face south. Not a pleasant experience. Presently I am in the process of trying to rectify a warranty denial on my formerly persistantly leaking pinion seal. It is not alot of fun and there is alot of work, but I'll get the satisfaction of knowing that the idiot dealer who denied my coverage did so at great expense to their reputation and future business. Maybe that's why forums like this exist. Allows the emotions to vent and then usually something constructive can be accomplished. My 2 cents worth or something to that effect.



jlb

 

[azgearpro]

warrenty

Anyone with half a brain would know, if you increase your horse power over stock and the radio breaks its not your fault, but if you break something in the drive train it is your fualt. I mean does anyone think they should cover a warrenty that was caused by a after market upgrade?

I knew when I started to bomb my truck that "I am my own warrenty station". Everytime I see Bill Kondaly he likes to remind me of it. Bill will sell you any performance mod you want, but he also will warn you that its not (if your going to break something, its when and how). So if you are willing to take the risk for the power, you should be willing to take the responsibility also.

I am not here to dog Banks, but you cant set here and tell me that a dealer should cover a warrenty issue that was your own fault.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

i'll not defend bill , he does very well on his own ....

Originally posted by NVR FNSH

Bill,

Give it a rest with asking whether or not Banks will pay for the failed transmissions w/o doing an investigation. Provide the information requested and post the results of the OFF-LINE discussions with Banks. As the champion of the poor, blindsided souls are you pursuing any other shops that manufacture power enhancements? I'm willing to bet you've repaired/modified transmissions that been denied warranty coverage due to DD/Edge/etc OVER FUELING enhancements. Did these companies step up to the plate and pay to fix the transmissions? Did you go after them on a public forum?



Since you paid your $35. 00 and that gives you the right to be the mouthpiece please enlighten us all to the events at May Madness.



Brian

Brian , none of the other companies you mention use the tatics about warranty and MM to sell their products , in fact the paperwork from edge products states that you risk warranty problems and you install their product knowing this up front and its your problem not theirs ...



i am my own warranty station ... if i get caught ...

 

[Joe G.]

We all know that Bill is world renowned for his tactful way of expressing his opinion. However, he is usually right! I always like to read his posts since they are nicely phrased.

 

[Glen Pratt]

If every vendor had customer service like Bill Kondalay - D. T. T. , the world would be a much nicer place. After I received my torque converter and valve body, I recieved a call from Bill to see if everything was satisfactory. Needless to say I was stunned. Bill knows the right way to do business. Thanks Bill for an awsome product. -Glen Pratt

 

[NVR FNSH]

I have absolutely no problem with Bill's intentions - I have a problem with the execution of those intentions. It's pretty obvious to even the most casual observer that Banks WILL NOT agree to pay for trans failures w/o doing any kind of investigation. I do not know the particulars of any of the cases & whether or not the vehicle owner pursued reimbursement from Banks or not. I have never met Bill but from what I've read he is a very smart man & has a lot to offer the TDR community. That said, the approach he is taking here just doesn't sit right with me. Just my opinion, NOT THE MOUTHPIECE FOR ANYBODY ELSE.



I too have had the pleasure of sticking it to a Dodge dealer but I did it w/o laying it open to the public before the issued was resolved.



BTW - I am learning from & enjoying this post



Brian

 

[Sky]

"Anytime that a customer is above the maximum weight rating, I WOULD recommend that he consider transmission modifications, and I would caution him about warranty jeopardy. "



So let me get this straight??? Banks recommends to all there customers that they should modify there trannys first?? I have a feeling that they dont but I dont know for sure? Do they Peter?



Mike

 

[Archive]

That comment doesn't seem too fair... You're assuming that all of us exceed the weight ratings. Granted, lots of us do, but I assumed that I was taking my life (and equipment) in my own hands at that point.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

Originally posted by Joe G.

I always like to read his posts since they are nicely phrased.

hehehe ... . they are nicely phrased because Bill ain't doin' the typin' ... Shanti cleans it up for him on the fly

 

[BigUgly]

LOL@Mopar-muscle

Josiah

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

*I* firmly am convinced that:



Banks products WILL...



1. Increase power

2. Void manufacturer's warranty...

3. Banks won't pay a DIME or assume the SLIGHTEST financial responsibility for drivetrain failures.



AND, that no way In *HE11* will you EVER see anything from Banks other than SMOKE, mirrors and MORE of the same evasion displayed in this thread as to what they would like you to THINK they will "do for you"...



It's a PITY that so prominent a company resorts to evasion and double talk, instead of clearly pointing out that their stuff WILL increase engine power and fueling - and along WITH those benefits, will ALSO place customers in potential financial difficulty as drivetrain failures surface and warranties are rightfully denied.



In Peter T's post above, he requests various bits of supporting info when warranty issues arise - why?... EASY, because BANKS wants (and will ultimately DEMAND) to have it PROVED to them beyond any shadow of doubt that ANY drivetrain failures can be PROVED to have been caused by THEIR stuff, and NOT due to OTHER power increasing mods done to the engine before they even REMOTELY consider any liability!



NOW, if Banks can so EASILY understand the principle of assigning causes of failures BEFORE assuming financial liability - WHY do they try to suggest that the Dodge service department hasn't the intelligence and RIGHT to do the SAME thing?



After all, if YOU were a manufacturer, would YOU sign a blank check and stand still for being charged for endless drivetrain repairs after customers radically increased engine power, placing stresses upon components above what they were engineered (OR warranteed!) to handle? If DC engineers figured those drivetrains were capable of additional power, WHY did they detune the Cummins to start with?



We all KNOW the answer, don't we - and SO DOES BANKS!



*I* don't mind the RISK of installing warranty-voiding power enhancing products nearly as much as I resent the deception and evasion we are seeing from Banks...



Peter, I have NO problem with the performance, quality OR price of your stuff, no one forced me to buy it - but I *do* object to your inferred "customer support" where warranty issues are concerned. You guys at Banks aren't ABOUT to pay for ANY voided warranty damage without a very SERIOUS struggle and ENDLESS stonewalling... Who do you think you're fooling here?

 

[Hammer]

Its quite obvious here that no resolution is going to be offered,,Why do they,BANKS,think we are all 1st grade educated people and can not see thru their "DOG AND PONY SHOW",,Every member here has had their experience's with dealers and the aftermarket mods that void the warranty's,,To hide behind such a weak excuse of an act for warranty repairs AFTER mods is crazy,just tell them up front like you should,,Seems like they are acting like a cornered animal,instead of a MAJOR aftermarket company that will not admit they have made a mistake,,Kinda makes you wonder what ever happened to the old "honesty is the best policy" phrase in their business doesn't it????

 

[Crazy Horse]

I'm gonna jump in here late. The dealer or the manufacturer can not legally void you new vehicle warranty. It's as simple as that. They can however legally refuse to perform warranty sevice for a problem or failure that your aftermarket tinkering caused. If you add to, or alter your "factory built vehicle"you are responsible for those consequences. If you have a warrantabe problem unrelated to your modification the manufacturer is legally bound to perform the repairs under warrranty. The bottom line is read your warranty book.

 

[NJohnson]

Warranty issues

I think many of you are missing the point here regarding warranty coverage. It isn't Banks' fault that DC is out to screw their customers out of rightful warranty coverage. Banks is doing the right thing by pointing out to people that the law is on their side in this matter. The original warranty cannot be imperiled simply because we've chosen to improve the capabilities of our trucks. It starts with customer awareness. Do the research on your own before you make these changes. Choose a product with a long standing, good reputation for quality and reliability. Be respectful of your trucks inherent limitations regarding towing capacity. We all know that if we want to greatly exceed towing capacity, a transmission upgrade will be well recieved and in many cases, prevent the run in with your dealership. The fact is that your dealership cannot LEGALLY void your coverage simply because you chose to improve your vehicle. Whether they're routinely trying to anyway is the real topic to we need to discuss. Again, it isn't Banks' fault that DC is turning it's back on loyal customers like us who deserve better than what they (DC) are giving us. What you'll notice is, Ford owners who make similar modifications face far fewer unfair warranty denials. What does that tell you? Those guys are installing similar after market equipment including Banks systems yet warranty denial problems with Ford are virtually non existant. It's DC, pure and simple. Perhaps we should be re-evaluating our loyalty to DC rather than attacking Banks for doing nothing for than quoting a federal law that's been on the books since 1975. If you're dealership gives a problem a true causal analysis and concludes that your after market mod caused the damage, then you're on the hook. YOU MUST DEMAND THIS FAIR ANALYSIS AND NOT LET ZEKE IN THE SERVICE DEPT. TELL YOU THAT YOUR WARRANTY IN GONE BECAUSE HE NOTICED YOUR BANKS DECAL. It's our duty to demand more from our dealerships than that kind of treatment. If we're going to get DC to wake up and join us here in the year 2001 then we have to band together and demand what's coming to us. Personally, I have a Banks Powerpack installed on my 2000 and it was the smartest money I could have ever spent on the truck. The product quality is beyond reproach and my experience with their service has been a delight. They did their part in offering a well tested, well engineered system. I do my part by driving the truck as it was intended and not towing far beyond what it's rated for. Guess what... I haven't had a single problem with my dealership. The bottom line is that we need to accept a little responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming Banks for the dealerships who'll void your warranty for armor-alling the tires. Food for thought.

Naiven R. Johnson

 

[Sky]

NJohnson, Welcome to TDR.



Was it this thread that made you become a member? I see its your first post. Do you think Banks knows that DC void Warranties regularly? Do you think that they Tell the DC customer that there is a good chance that the pak they put on could void there warranty? Alot of people see the big HP gain and the "guarentee" from Banks. What else do they need? There are alot of trusting people in this world and dont go check every single thing out that they buy. If you were a first time customer wouldnt you want to know that information up front? If I went to a large company looking to increase my HP and talked to a good sales man and told me how good there product was and there warranty is NOT in jeopardy and flashed the MM act in front of you, wouldnt you think "hmm maby this is ok, it must be " ok. About a year ago I would have but not now because I got educated before I went to banks from this site.



However its each to his own.

 

[CGoyette]

A couple of obvious points and a couple not so obvious.



1. Banks implies that there product doesn’t void your warranty and uses the MF act as a confidence builder ( I use moving decoys in duck hunting the same way)



2. Banks doesn’t have to pay a dime since they like the dealer get to say Prove it was my product.



3. YOUR transmission DOESN’T CARE THAT YOU’RE HAPPY WITH ALL THAT POWER AND REFUSES TO STRAP ON KEVLAR! (meaning it isn’t bullet proof even Bill’s DTT stuff and he will tell you that also see next line)



4. Bill Kondolay is one of those kinds of guys we all aspire to be brutally honest and he will tell you that even his stuff isn’t bulletproof…. wow the truth. He tells you that you will strain you transmission with over wt loads and High HP.



5. Bill K stands by his product and if you check all the post on TDR and his site and do a master search of the net you won’t find a bad thing said about his customer service…why I really believe he has a pride thing …. call his name and his word they are who you are.



6. Banks products are expensive yes and seam to deliver exactly as they advertise. Banks only fails to enlighten the potential customer of warranty problems…. and that is to bad.



7. I would have put the banks power pack on my truck but dang if I didn’t spend 35 dollars to get an education that I follow up with more education in a seldom-used method any more independent verification.



8. As for me EDGE EZ and a 4 inch exhaust is all I need!

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by CGoyette

8. As for me EDGE EZ and a 4 inch exhaust is all I need!

We'll see if that holds true One piece of advice... ... ... Do not get in any Rams BOMB'ed more then yours, or you will like it and crave it.

 

[Sky]

Originally posted by KatDiesel





We'll see if that holds true One piece of advice... ... ... Do not get in any Rams BOMB'ed more then yours, or you will like it and crave it.

O so true Kat, sooooooo true.