Commercial tags vs private (non-comm) use

[MacHaggis]

Lawd, I hate to even open this up again, but I've been looking at a thread over at DieselStop about stsates stepping up enforcement of having a DOT# on interstate vehicles in excess of 10k#.



As usual in such threads, there's lots of talk about whether the vehicle is ever used in a commercial enterprise, or, in the simplest example, pulling a camper and no way engaging in commerce.



No one in my memory has addressed the issue of those states that, by virtue of weight only, and with no consideration of use, require commercial plates. Maine is not as bad as NY, in that Maine requires commercial plates once you hit 8K, but forego the commercial inspection unless you register for over 10k. I didn't have much choice. An 8k registration wouldn't get me home legally with a full tank, a passenger, and two sacks of feed in the back. I registered for my full 9900 GVWR. Could have gone higher but didn't want to get into the commercial inspection, which is an hourly rate charge instead of the flat $12. 50 for a regular sticker.



So the third aspect of the question. Simply by virtue of the weight of my Ram, I' pretty much have to have commercial plates. I never operate in commerce. I have heavy hobbies -- horses and old tractors. Neither involves commerce or even prize money. No commerce, no way. But does that make any difference if I'm sporting commercial plates and tittle. Do I need a DOT# to even cross the bridge into New Hampshire?

 

[jelag]

We tow with a combined weight of over 26K so we have DOT apportioned plates on those trucks that require it... . on trucks under 26K those plates aren't required... But since all my trucks are used for the business we have the Fed DOT number and signs as required...



I have an 05 that I haven't used yet for the business... . I drive them a year or so first as a personal driver and spare truck... . so it's got standard plates...



BTW - one you cross that 26K there are lot of things that change... . for us here in WA the costs associated with a truck under 26K and one over 26K is that the truck over 26K costs about 3X's of that for the truck under 26K... . plates, cab card, insurance, inspections, etc, etc... .



Do you remember seeing the sign on the back of some semi's, this truck pays 7,500 a year in road use taxes... . that is no joke.....

 

[Mundgyver]

In the end, it is not about the individual or rights that we would like to see or not, it is about how much money the state wants. My bet is that if you had access to the states registration data base and looked at the different truck sales and registrations form year to year, you would probably see that they (the state) is very key'd into how much money they are making on each type of registration.



Why would they want any Goose that Lays Golden Eggs to get away from the nest

 

[MacHaggis]

I know there may come a first time, but right now I don't have anything would throw me over 26k. Truck in sig and the heaviest thig I could assemble would be a 20+5 gooseneck that would gross 12,500 (pin and axles) with the heaviest tractors I could fit on it, so GCW would come in under 21k with a typical load of stuff. As far as my tractors, they're strictly hobby. The flatbed is no more comercial than a retiree's camper.



So, if I could have gotten regular passenger plates for the Ram, I wouldn't worry about the DOT#, even if it is free. But I'm a little concerned about the commercial plates. Thinkin' it might be hard to argue to a diesesel bear in Ohio that you I'm not commercial when I'm sporting commercial plates. I had a paralle3l in Ohio. The truck could get passenger plates okay, but the trailer (14k GVWR) had to be registered commercial because it's rated over 10k. But this business of needing a DOT# if you're over 10k and commercial . . . no physical, and the number is free, but a number all the same. I'm just betting that flatbeds are gonna get hammered on this harder than the 36' slide-outs, and wanna have the ducks llined up for when the boys in the blue pickups invite me to the side down at 6A

 

[JDHenning]

Commercial Plates

I think we are seeing a push in enforcement because of the growing number of light trucks on the road pulling goosenecks and fivers. The trucks have gotten more powerful so the trailers have gotten larger as well. In most cases the states are just letting us know they are watching us. Its gonna be one of those gray area things that differs in each state. In Oklahoma enforcement for big trucks is hit and miss. As far as smaller trucks I think you have to do something to get noticed. Hauling old tractors etc wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. A trailer loaded with drums of acid and no DOT# would get some attention. I doubt there will ever be any consitent law because the truck is registered in its home state. With the big trucks we have the IRP and many other ways to tax and keep track of us.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Your best bet is to tell these neighboring states the truth - that your vehicle is not used in commerce whatsoever and that ME requires all pickups over X thousand pounds to have commercial plates. If you do decide to get a USDOT #, it's not just the free number. You are going to have DOT inspections, driver files, lots of paperwork, and need to maintain 750,000$ insurance.



I would find something from the Maine DMV/MVC/MVD/etc. website that states the requirement for commercial plates for all pickups, commercial or non, that are over 8000#. Print it out, laminate it, highlight it and be able to show it to whoever asks. They need to prove you are commercial. If you are hauling a tractor have something that says it is yours (title or something?).

 

[JFaughn]

A lot of things I have come across have been mentioned already except for a couple , with 48 + or - , fed. /state there are many levels and perspectives , when I lived in
California [ 15 yrs. ago ] , if you did not have a camper shell they wanted com. plates , Now I'm in MInnesota and they go buy wieght , I heard one idea that made some sence that being that over whatever wt. was more wear&tear on the roads , that would be one level , then if your hauling for hire , more fees , HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF A PROTECTION RACKET , if your making $$$ they want a piece .
I went to reg. a bus [ about 26,000 lbs empty ] and there fee chart came to about $800 , so I didn't reg. , while in storage I got a notice that it was city law that all motor viehicals had to be reg. , I've driven this 30 miles in the last 15 yrs. [ $800 x 15 = 12,000 ] thats bull , and blackmail .

 

[jelag]

Our trailers are enclosed and we ran them across several states without DOT etc for several years..... and one state doesn't usually know if your trailer has commercial plates or not unless the plate says commercial on it... .



What I do know is that when we've been stopped... out of the blue,,, and the cop asks whats in the back... . if you have personal stuff..... like your going to go play... . with a few 4 tracks etc. . you fall under one set of rules..... if you say its business stuff... ... back hoe, track hoe, bobcat... etc. . and your over 26K you better be prepared to pay..... No DOT # X$$,,,, no CDL, no triangles, no fire ext. no log book... and if your more than say 5 hours from home they can force you to park the truck for 72 hours... ... on the other hand if your pulling your 5th wheel travel trailer with Volvo or Freight Liner and its for please, your OK.....



What we've learned is to do what your home state requires for personal use... and once you cross the line to commerical use... . they have a person who can guide you through the steps to make it all work right... ... .



Jim

 

[DavidThompson]

Currently owning a class 7 single axle volvo non sleeper..... based in Georgia... ... pulling a sunnybrook 38' fifth wheel... . both weighting 27,595lb I have not had any problems running in 5 states around Georgia with a non cdl lic. BUT what happens when I run to ariz. thur the southern route????... . it is solid white tractor with the lettering on each side that reads... private... ... not for hire... ... . rec vehicle... ... . I have a current dot inspection... ... I do not think I need a dot # that could be a can of worms... ... I have been selling HD trucks for a living for 31 years and have alway wanted a road tractor as a pull truck..... trucksalesdave... ... central Georgia

 

[JDHenning]

DOT number

The majority of the cost associated with the DOT number is usually paid to the service applying for you. The numbers that cost the most money to obtain and require mucho insurance are the MC/ICC numbers. DOT number is basically a way to register yourself. If you don't anticipate going commercial there is no need for a DOT number. In the application process for operating authority the first number you apply for is the DOT number, then you gather the appropriate insurance etc and follow through with obtaining your single state registration and intrastate authority for your home state and eventually you will have interstate authority and recieve your ICC numbers. There are many factors that determine the amount of insurance needed. I don't know what the minimums are, but mine are 500,000 cargo 1,000,000 general liab. and 2,000,000 auto liab, thats the spendy one. Had to get it because my loads many times are classified as Super Loads some of the states. Of course all of this is from memory and even at 28 yrs old I often suffer from CRS so take it for what its worth.

 

[jelag]

JD - We have our DOT number and are a private carrier... haul only our own product... I just went through this whole process as its been changed since 911 and our state WA has been telling every one that the new paper work needs to be done before Jan 1... Our state for private carriers..... didn't ask us for insurance information other than we had it and could provide vehicle coverage... ... . nothing was said about minimums..... but we don't have an ICC number because we don't haul freight for hire... .



Please share with the group what a Super Load is... I have not heard that term... .



Jim

 

[PatrickCampbell]

Difference is David is recreational, he doesn't need anything if his home state says he doesn't.



The minimum is 750,000$ for commercial non hazardous auto liability over 10,000 lbs weight.



You don't need cargo insurance with a USDOT #.



With MC # you need 10,000 cargo minimum (might be 5k) or equal to the value of the goods you are hauling.



http://xj.cdevco.net

 

[JHardwick]

I *think* some states (Ohio is) are tagging trucks and trailers commercial as a way to increase revenue.



Ohio used to have "NON-COMMS", I think they were a little more than car tags, but now they do trucks/trailers commercial so that they can charge you according to weight.

 

[JKinney]

Machaggis;



Maine is worse than you think, Yes we have to have commercial plates, and we can register to 9999lbs,and go with a non comercial inspection. And we are exempt from weight when hauling our campers. But if you get stopped by those blue pickup trucks hauling tractors etc, and you dont have the 75. 00 inspection sticker verses the 12. 00 version, standby. Is the trailer your hauling the tractor on dual axel over 3,000 lbs? that needs to be inspected too, thats another 50. 00inspection fee. The blue trucks will put on the overalls and get after it. there tickets start at 500. 00 Us landscapers get stopped quite often in the portland area.



Did you read friday,s bangor daily? We can now lift our rigs, which I dont care to do, but we can go oversize on tires Oo. Toyo m55 285s are on the shopping list.

 

[JDHenning]

Super Load

The definition of a Super Load varies from state to state. It is a combination of size and weight. In KS its anything over 150K gross weight. In Indiana its over 200K gross, or 14' 6" tall etc etc. If I listed all the states and their regs it would shut down my brain Here in OK they don't even classify Super Loads. The further northeast you go the lighter and smaller a super load becomes. It blows my mind how much has changed in our business since 911. Access to refineries etc has become a major deal, as well as the changes each state has made in their requirements. Its interesting to hear how vehicle enforcement affects each user different from the traveler to the user haluing their own products etc. Funny thing is you can ask different officers from the same state agency and many times get VERY different answers to your questions. Even the insurance and liscence requirements for my escort vehicles changes, and the states we are certified in often contradict eachother.