Compressed Natural Gas

[JERRYDODGE]

I see T. Boon Pickins is trying to convert all 8 million semis to CNG. Is that feasible for our 6. 7's? has anyone even added propane injection? The CNG

would sure 'clean' the inners of the6. 7.

 

[tempforce]

you would encounter large expenses in converting.

but when you buy a new truck, or installing a new engine, the price difference wouldn't be that much.

most of the truck stops are in the works, to install liquid natural gas fueling pumps.

when that source is complete, then the public pumps will follow.

natural gas conversion is a price feasible conversion for a gasoline fueled engine.

natural gas is about 120-130 octane. (someone correct me here if i'm wrong). .

the natural gas conversion, isn't like propane injection.

natural gas system would replace the diesel fuel system.

plus even with the loss of mileage, the cost per mile, would be around a 1/4 of current fuel, at todays prices.

 

[PFranzese]

plus even with the loss of mileage, the cost per mile, would be around a 1/4 of current fuel, at todays prices.

I wonder if the price would remain that much lower than diesel after the demand of 8 million trucks filling up on the stuff.

 

[tempforce]

over 90% of our natural gas is sourced in north america and transport by container drives cost up a lot. so pricing should be more or less a north america issue.

we have enough known reserves to replace all of our oil requirements with natural gas for about 80 years with known reserves.

diesel can be made from natrual gas, if the price of diesel gets to about $7. 00/gallon.

so that will taper diesel prices at that point.

hopefully we won't be needing much diesel by the time diesel gets that expensive.

but with the value of the dollar dropping so fast over the past few years.

we may see it that high, sooner than the experts expect. .

personally my project truck is being built for liquid propane injection.

(which could be converted to liquid natual gas by changing tanks, hoses, regulators, injectors and computer settings).

propane is currently to inconvenient for trucks and it's price will jump if demand goes to high.

natural gas has about 20 octane points more than propane, so higher compression engines may be used.

extracting more power.

as propane is a byproduct of refining fuels from oil and the processing of natural gas.

i hope the natural gas highway is complete, prior to my next new car purchase.

as then we won't need to import oil, or to deploy our troops. to protect the supply of oil to us and our friends.

cc

 

[GHarman]

Heres the issue with NG. We are already heating homes and businesses. So we add vehicle fueling and electric power plant ("clean energy") usage and that 80 year projection is easily a "blue sky" hopeful figure.

Diesel fuel can be made from coal. We have about a 400 year supply of coal. NG is clean and other reserves may be found? I would not hold my breath as to the cost holding down at $1. 00 per gallon equivalent. Another issue is fuel mileage. I seriously doubt NG will provide the fuel mileage that #2 Diesel fuel does. 'Course that is my subjective opinion. Here's some information, you draw your own conclusions. GregH



Propane Vs. Natural Gas - A Comparison



Unit Conversion : Oil Industry Conversions



Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) as a Transportation Fuel

 

[tempforce]

thanks for posting those links, however i've already been to them and many more. the 80 year estimate is for after converting everything over. excluding the coal fired power plants.
yes we can make diesel and gasoline from coal. but the process currently is to costly and the by products are pretty nasty.
the best solution is to use all of the above sources and quit importing.
as we have huge reserves of oil in North America, if you include tar sands and oil shale. over 200 years worth. . that's not counting all of the shoreline sources, that are currently off limits to put into production.
then there is the methane ice, off shore. there is at least a thousand years of energy available there, when we develop a way to recover that source of energy.
if we don't develop our own energy resources we will become even more dependent upon foreign sources, along with our money devaluing, then we have to consider the cost of protecting those sources.

 

[GHarman]

thanks for posting those links, however i've already been to them and many more. the 80 year estimate is for after converting everything over. excluding the coal fired power plants.

yes we can make diesel and gasoline from coal. but the process currently is to costly and the by products are pretty nasty.

the best solution is to use all of the above sources and quit importing.

as we have huge reserves of oil in North America, if you include tar sands and oil shale. over 200 years worth. . that's not counting all of the shoreline sources, that are currently off limits to put into production.

then there is the methane ice, off shore. there is at least a thousand years of energy available there, when we develop a way to recover that source of energy.

if we don't develop our own energy resources we will become even more dependent upon foreign sources, along with our money devaluing, then we have to consider the cost of protecting those sources.

Well Said, Tempforce! GregH

 

[MullenaxM]

Go Here:



Cummins Westport • ISL G (North America).

 

[MullenaxM]

From the Coast Ranges of Oregun

a good place to be from, now that it's califoricated.

'08' mega "my big red 409"

'83' ford 2. 2 diesel ranger 30-38 mpg

'56' F-100 project







Where is oregun?

 

[CKelley1]

i have worked on diesel gensets that start on diesel and switch to ng using diesel only to fire it. i wander if a hybrid like this might be easier for our trucks. 50% diesel 50%ng would help

 

[tempforce]

'oregon' pronounced by natives of the state sounds like 'oregun'.
also the university of oregon, used 'oregun' as part of their football team advertising.
it's one of the, 'you have to be there' to understand issues.
sort of like harley riders...

 

[BLNRAY]

ck out the fuel tanks on cng vehicles,i worked as a mechanic for a transit system that went gas,the diesel buses had 125 gal tanks,could run 8-12 hours without fueling,the cng buses have 6 fuel tanks with a liquid capacity of 500 +gals. ,somtimes would not make 10hrs with refueling.

 

[Schrowang]

Caterpillar manufactured and sold something called "Total Energy Plants". They were for installation in large building complexes in cities and consisted of 3 or 4 16 cylinder NG fired diesel engines couples to large gen sets. The hot water for the building(s) was cold water circulated through water jackets around the exhaust systems. In a 4 engine plant, three engins ran 24/7 with the 4th engine acting as a maintenance reserve.



I know of buildings in NYC where these plants were installed and are probably still running. Not sure what was done to the engines to fire them off of NG, but the system worked well.

 

[tempforce]

a lower compression (about 16:1), spark plugs, ignition system and fuel delivery (vapor carb like a propane carb).
with such large rods and bottom end, the engines would be very long lasting.

the use of waste heat is common with stationary plants.
if i set up a emergency plant for a home or small office.
i would incorporate a engine mounted a/c compressor, tied into the heat pump system.
(reducing the electric plant's load for the heat pump(s). thus reducing the energy loss of making electricity and then mechanical energy to pump freon).

cc

 

[RustyJC]

Gaseous fueled engines can be either spark gas conversions of diesels or dual-fuel engines where the gas/air mixture is ignited by a pilot shot (1. 5% to 4% of total fuel BTU consumed) of diesel fuel. The advantage of the dual fuel engine is that, if the gas supply is curtailed, most dual fuel engines can revert to 100% diesel operation while under load without ever shutting down or even reducing load.



Cogeneration plants normally capture waste heat from the engine jackets, lube oil cooler and intercooler circuits and post-turbo exhaust using a waste heat boiler and use this heat to produce steam for heat and/or process service as well as chilled water for A/C using an adsorption chiller.





Rusty

 

[tempforce]

we made fresh water from the energy of exhaust waste heat, on several ships i've been on. (they didn't have steam plants). they used a vacuum system to lower the temp water boiled.

 

[bheiting]

I see T. Boon Pickins is trying to convert all 8 million semis to CNG. Is that feasible for our 6. 7's? has anyone even added propane injection? The CNG

would sure 'clean' the inners of the6. 7.

Cummins Westport has(had) a contract for all the switch tractor engines

at the port of Long Beach to run on nat. gas. Recently the cost/energy equivalent of fuel was approx. $1 per gal. of diesel. At present the cost of conversion wouldn't pay for the average pickup driver, but for any over the road trucker, the cost benefits would be recovered in a very short time. If Pickins gets his way, buy Cummins stock as soon as you can.

 

[AHolt]

Last year I read a article on a Dmax 4x4 cng 42 mph.

Vw diesel 102 mpg. The kits were like $5000.

Holding tanks need to be inspected and replaced

in a given time.

 

[dkoldno7]

cng

I would to add the alaska gas pipeline soon to come maybe will ad 40% more too known reserves. Also renewable diesel vs biodiesel is also a great read.

dkoldno7

 

[Austin Diesel]

we need some of these units for the house coupled into solar cells like the ideas and concepts just need some prototype units and natural gas fuel cells to extract hydrogren for fuel cell generators to also help gain energy independence time for this technology to hit mainstream