Compression test

[DCreed]

do common rails have a vacuum pump? I hear that failure can cause excessive oil blow-by.

 

[DonFitzwater]

Stick to the basics,



1. Do a compression check. If one is lower than the rest, add some oil to the cylinder throught the injector hole and repeat. An increase in compression will tell you that you have cylinder/piston ring issues. If no increase then you have either head gasket or valve guide issues.



2. Pressure wash your entire engine and transmission. Coat it in talcum powder and go for a drive (not everywhere, just where you suspect the leak). This should give you a trail to follow for an external leak.



I am having the exact same issue with my 98 12 valve right now and have narrowed it down to bad valve guides. My truck is blowing the oil out of the rear main seal at highway speeds when I've got lots of boost. Good luck and remember to stick to the basics of engine diagnostics.

 

[DonFitzwater]

do common rails have a vacuum pump? I hear that failure can cause excessive oil blow-by.

No they don't have vacuum pumps. They use a hydro-boost setup for brakes and steering power.

 

[betterthanstock]

I did that last night an there was positive pressure in puffs as well

as vapors in puffs. Plus there is a lot of vapor coming from blowby tube.

So engine has a cylinder issue would be a fair diagnosis?

There's your answer right there. Probably a partly melted,or cracked piston (due to a stuck injector, or just plain abuse, high EGT).



That causes high crankcase pressure, which blows out seals and also blows oil down the blowby tube.



Looks like the head has to come off, and then you know the extent of the damage, maybe will need one sleeved cylinder to fix it, which would need the whole engine pulled. You can also look for a wrecked truck engine, in good shape, then sell yours.

 

[sag2]

If you use the Miller tool for checking the compression you have to reinstall the rockers after you install the tool, then pull it back apart to get the tool out. The easiest way is to use the Miller tool and a leak down tester, then you only have to pull apart and reinstall everything one time.

 

[ackermanN]

OK, gents, here is what the dealer says ..... It needs a turbo and the
intercooler and pipes cleaned out.

I do greatly appreciate all of your ideas, suggestions and solutions.

 

[ackermanN]

OH! Then what turbo would you guys recommend?

 

[DCreed]

if all you change is the turbo buy two. The seals blow from excess crankcase pressure. It will happen again.

 

[MColavecchio]

I posted this on another thread, but thought it would be helpful here.....



I just bought my 2004. 5 CTD 3 months ago off Ebay from Dallas. Truck has 112k and appeared to be in excellent shape all around. I just noticed some oil buildup around blowby tube on side of engine and on front differential. Bottom of truck was unusually clean and was likely steam cleaned. I figured no big deal for a truck with this kind of mileage. However, after parking truck over night I noticed 4 inch puddles of oil under blowby tube & front axle. After my first long highway drive (3 hours) the entire bottom of the truck was coated with oil and had oil spray on tailgate. Funny thing is truck starts right up in cold weather, runs smooth, doesn't smoke (unless you really punch it - black smoke), appears to have good power, gets 17-18 mpg in town and 20 mpg highway and doesn't seem to use alot of oil. Oil analysis showed only a slightly elevated iron content (probably cylinders wearing). No evidence of piston, bearing or ring particles, anti-freeze, water, fuel or soot in oil.



I noticed pulsing white/steamy smoke coming out of oil fill cap opening when engine is idling. Force will blow cap off engine. Same smoke can be seen coming from breather tube under engine - but you have to get under truck to see it. I did alot of research on all the CTD sites and concluded I had an excessive blowby problem. So I brought it to a Cummins dealer last week for testing. They did a blowby test using a Manometer and the engine raised the water column a very high 30 inches (factory spec is 10 inches). They checked turbo - ok. Compression test came back 150 psi cylinder #1, 450 in #2, 200 in #3, 200 in #4 (he didn't test cylinders 5 & 6 because he got enough bad news). Factory spec is 350 psi. 150-200 psi is low compression for this engine. The mechanic thinks the excessive blowby is coming through worn or cracked rings/cylinder wall scoring. He didn't think it was a hole or crack in piston or a valve problem. However, he would need to pull head off to be certain.



The injectors all looked good, no high performance mods noted, engine looks stock. Eventhough the intake system and turbo fins were clean, he suspected the engine got DUSTED by the fine dust in the plains of Texas. I have read that there is alot of controversy about "dusted" engines. I live in Connecticut but he has serviced trucks up from the southwest that suffered similar problems.



BOTTOM LINE - REPLACE ENGINE !!



REMANUFACTURED SHORT BLOCK (pistons, rings, rebored cylinders, bearings) $7-8,000



REMANUFACTURED LONG BLOCK (short block plus remanufactured head) $ 10-11,000



He recommended a long block because having a new, high pressure bottom end would possibly harm a high mileage valve train and suck a valve or two - SAY BYE-BYE TO NEW ENGINE.



Also due to mileage, he recommended replacing turbo because an older worn turbo can blow out seals and blow oil into cylinders and explode, causing engine to overrev and self-destruct - SAY BYE-BYE TO NEW ENGINE. Just add another $2,000



$10,000 - 13,000 to fix my problem. Also since the engine and transmission have to come out might as well install new clutch, throwout bearing and input shaft seal.



I bought the truck for $20,000 and am having a hard time justifying putting that kind of money into it.



I have a friend who owns a machine shop and he said if I pull the engine out myself, he can rebuild it to factory specs for alot less - He is working a getting me part prices so I don't know total estimate.



The mechanic said I can still drive it, but check the oil every day and be aware that one day the engine could puke alot of oil in a very short time and cause major engine failure.

 

[rbattelle]

Wow, I hate to hear that kind of thing. I wouldn't be surprised if the original owner was running a "performance" air filter (assuming the engine really was "dusted").

If you shell out the cash to put in the complete new engine (say $13k), you're in for $33k, which is the price I paid for mine new in 2003. That's no good at all.

I, personally, couldn't afford something like that. So I'd do what I always do in these situations - take labor out of the equation and do all the work myself. If that were impractical, I might consider listing the truck for $15k and hoping to get $10k from it. A very nasty, expensive lesson learned.

Ryan

 

[DPKetchum]

Could pull head,if cyl. walls look good put rings in it and try that. Sounds like it dosen't need a complete overhaul.

 

[rbattelle]

Could pull head,if cyl. walls look good put rings in it and try that. Sounds like it dosen't need a complete overhaul.

I think that's a pretty good idea, as a start. Rings are relatively cheap.



Ryan

 

[ackermanN]

MColavecchio, That is exactly my story! My truck came from Pheonix, AZ, A corporate owner. I was told by Mid-Atlantic Cummins thay my engine had been dusted. And I also suspect high idle times. I did find a place that would ship a rebuilt

long block for $6000. My wife found a solution.

i will send to you via e-mail.

 

[DPKetchum]

You can pull the engine hours and see if high idle times or basicly lots of hours and few miles. Jack engine up,pull head,oil pan and start pushing pistons up. If pistons ok decarbon the ring grooves,lighly hone,fit new rings and reassembly. If it went well I bet a tough 3 day weekend is what it would take. Maybe a 2 day if lots of engery!

 

[Moose]

If it were my truck I would pull the head off and inspect the cylinder walls first... If the cylinders look good I would pull the pistons, inspect and re-ring them if they are good... Micrometer the cylinders walls to make sure they are within spec and not oval or egg shaped... If the cylinder walls check out, put new rod and main bearings in and button it all back up...

If the cylinder walls are messed up have a machine shop look at it and see if they are salvageable (sometimes you can get by with just honing them again) . . If not start looking for a new or used engine. .

While you have the head off, go ahead and put on some new valve seals

You can probably get your turbo rebuilt or snag a low mileage one off ebay or the forum classifieds

Best of luck


Moose

 

[MHowell]

MColavecchio, That is exactly my story! My truck came from Pheonix, AZ, A corporate owner. I was told by Mid-Atlantic Cummins thay my engine had been dusted. And I also suspect high idle times. I did find a place that would ship a rebuilt

long block for $6000. My wife found a solution.

i will send to you via e-mail.

Wait, what happened? I thought you took it to the dealer and just got a new turbo and some other things cleaned. Catch us up on what has happened since then.

 

[ackermanN]

After the second dealer I called HTT in the Salt Lake City area to see what turbo they recommended. They sid "if that turbo was causing that much oil loss it would have to be frozen solid. " So back to square one.
obviously dealers weren't going to find the problem any time soon. So
I took it over to Mid-Atlantic Cummins. I am well out of warranty so they
were able to help out. They ran a manometer test and it was well into the twenties. they said the engine was "dusted". So I am now in the same boat as MColavecchio.

 

[ackermanN]

Oh and the only way to get a new engine is through Dodge. Even cummins cannot get one from commins. I did find a place that sells like new long block for 6K but then there is teh labor cost to add on.