conoco should be closed for this.

[steved]

Not only that, but both nuclear incidents (chernoble and three mile) were caused after the safetys and backups were bypassed or locked out IIRC.



That was operator fault, not a failure on the plant itself (if it had been operated properly)...



steved

 

[Msilbernagel]

Steve,



Not to take sides pro or con vis nuclear, but the operator IS part of the system, just as a pilot (can you say "pilot error") is part of a larger system to fly airplanes.



If you cannot live without them (operators/pilots), then their error and failure rates must be included in the overall calculation of safety.



At least, in my thinking...



Mark

-

Not only that, but both nuclear incidents (chernoble and three mile) were caused after the safetys and backups were bypassed or locked out IIRC.



That was operator fault, not a failure on the plant itself (if it had been operated properly)...



steved

 

[tgordon]

The one thing the article did not take into account, the number of lives "disrupted" by the accidents. But, my main problem with nuclear power is dealing with the spent fuel. Are all of you who are saying it is fine volunteering your yard for waste storage? I do not claim to have all the answers, but I have plenty of thoughts and questions.



As for the price of food, cry me a river ladies. The futures price of wheat goes up say . 50, they jack the price of bread up $1 and say it is because of the price of grain, there would really only be a cost change of about . 05 for the bread company. So the farmer finally gets a break and in the US we still spend a lower % of our income on food than other countries, even Europe, and the farmer is now a horrible person?



I belive that there is no one answer, ex Marine use nuclear, auto/truck WVO, power generation use Naturla gas/wind/solar.



Deisel gunner, it takes energy to change the form of energy, hence an electric motr heats up when it is operated. So how Joules are used to produce Diesel fuel? If I recall the biofuels fall some where in the -15% to 15% range depending upon which sources one uses and how in depth you want to go. At the same time I have seen numbers stating that it takes 75%+ more energy to produce diesel fuel from the tar sands that they are in the process of doing now. If you are worried abou tthe price of your fuel, feel free to give your local tree hugger bunny love a great big hug, because you have them to thank for these ever tightening regulations, leading to more processing, leading to more expensive fuel at the pump, or if you live in MI you can thank good old Aunt Jenni.

 

[TAbbott]

"Are all of you who are saying it (nuclear power) is fine volunteering your yard for waste storage?"



I am. We have a tremendous hole in the ground in southern Nevada that has had literally billions of dollars poured into it for just such a purpose. It's time it started getting used. Our state should charge all of the other states for the priveledge of using that hole in the ground. If Harry Reid and his cronies would make a little policy shift there, all Nevadan's could be getting a check each year from the general fund (much like Alaska and their oil) instead of paying such exhorbitant taxes and fees ($600. 00 + a year to license a pickup -- $460. 00 for a toy hauler, just for example). It's been studied to death and there is no better place in the country to put such a depository. Is it perfect? Probably not. It's just the best location available. The stuff has to be stored somewhere until it becomes safe enough to rocket it off into the sun, which it is not safe enough to do that yet. So, temporarily, it must be stored somewhere. Yucca Mountain, NV is waiting.

 

[Champane Flight]

Ups and downs of this one...

"Are all of you who are saying it (nuclear power) is fine volunteering your yard for waste storage?"



I am. We have a tremendous hole in the ground in southern Nevada that has had literally billions of dollars poured into it for just such a purpose. It's time it started getting used. Our state should charge all of the other states for the priveledge of using that hole in the ground. If Harry Reid and his cronies would make a little policy shift there, all Nevadan's could be getting a check each year from the general fund (much like Alaska and their oil) instead of paying such exhorbitant taxes and fees ($600. 00 + a year to license a pickup -- $460. 00 for a toy hauler, just for example). It's been studied to death and there is no better place in the country to put such a depository. Is it perfect? Probably not. It's just the best location available. The stuff has to be stored somewhere until it becomes safe enough to rocket it off into the sun, which it is not safe enough to do that yet. So, temporarily, it must be stored somewhere. Yucca Mountain, NV is waiting.

You are so correct, however the politicians will get the money, the mountain will get the waste, and then be forgotten instead of maintained.

 

[mhenon]

Keep you eye on these guys. They can turn almost anything into fuel.

http://www.choren.com/en/



Mike

 

[DennyDay]

Back in the seventys we used to say " Drive 75mph freeze a Yankee" remember when the 55 mph speed limit took effect? Today it is "Drive 75mph starve an Ethpoian" There just ain't enough soy beans or corn or sunflowers available to do everything we want to do. We're going to have to decide wether we want to eat and feed the rest of the world, or operate in our world with bio fuels. Sombody said it earlier "Organization of FOOD Producing Countries. "



OK, I feel better



Denny

 

[TBurow]

sure nuclear power is mostly good, but i live in a small town just outside braidwood il (look it up) where com ed has hed repeated problems with leaking water contaminated with tridium into our groundwater,we use private wells here. its been going on for 11 years, com ed says its ok and safe, ha , what arent they telling us, there has been a cancer outbreak along the kankakee river (the same river com ed discharges wastewater into) and they claim no responsability for it, but they are supposedly to build a water treatment plant for one affected town nearby, nuclear power is safe if the a-holes running it are actually responsible for their actions and lack of up keep, i say make the execs and bean counters from com ed get a shovel and start cleaning up their messes and this crap might stop. sorry just wanted to rant because there are more problems than big companys let on about.

 

[steved]

sure nuclear power is mostly good, but i live in a small town just outside braidwood il (look it up) where com ed has hed repeated problems with leaking water contaminated with tridium into our groundwater,we use private wells here. its been going on for 11 years, com ed says its ok and safe, ha , what arent they telling us, there has been a cancer outbreak along the kankakee river (the same river com ed discharges wastewater into) and they claim no responsability for it, but they are supposedly to build a water treatment plant for one affected town nearby, nuclear power is safe if the a-holes running it are actually responsible for their actions and lack of up keep, i say make the execs and bean counters from com ed get a shovel and start cleaning up their messes and this crap might stop. sorry just wanted to rant because there are more problems than big companys let on about.

And this is different from a big oil refinery polluting soil/ground water with benzene and other carcinogens??



Or the acid mine drainage from coal strip mines???



Or the combined air emissions from either coal or oil use?



Just showing that the alternatives aren't the greatest either... they get away with it because they have deep pockets, which doesn't make it right.



steved

 

[TBurow]

what i was trying to say was that if they made the people in charge of theese billion dollar companys personally responsable for their actions and lack of there would be a much better enviroment, less pollution, and a heck of a lot more energy to go around. less waste is more available for everyone.

 

[Champane Flight]

What?

what i was trying to say was that if they made the people in charge of theese billion dollar companys personally responsable for their actions and lack of there would be a much better enviroment, less pollution, and a heck of a lot more energy to go around. less waste is more available for everyone.

Yes and the cost of said energy would be a whole mess higher, something else for the spoiled American public to whine about...

 

[PeteFleming]

Toooo much discussion on global warming so as to legitimise a concept that is at best... Junk Science. Remember who is pushing it? Al won't take any questions during his presentations; especially about how his theory jumps over the last step of a 3 step process of scientific proof. A lot of emotion and no real science here. If you will look in the Bible in the first chapter of Romans; it tells you in no uncertain terms that these people would worship and serve the earth that God made and not the God who accomplished the actual creation. Professing themselves to be wise; they became fools in their own wisdom. Good stewardship is $XX to clean up 80% of a mess. Bad stewardship is 2(XX) to clean up an additional 5%. Another verse "a double-minded man is unstable in all of his ways". I'm a tree hugger and I'm gonna drive my suv to my private jet from my hugemongous house which I heat and air condition with no one in it (but I buy green offset credits etc. etc. Air Nazis. . Not a lot in the common sense department.

 

[tgordon]

Hey Pete, did you hear how much AL spend in energy a month for his house that he is hardly ever in and everyone else can do so much do save energy? According to the radio, I belive it was Paul Harvey, he spends about $1000 per month! That is moer than I spend to heat this junk hole I rent for a year in central MI. In 2 months time that would cover my heat and electric for the whole year!



I do not know how accurate the source is, but I pisses me off when I am doing stuff to save money and here he is wasting these resources preeching how we should be preserveing them, and probably getting paid to say it at the same time.



Troy

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Here is what you are referring too:



http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/article.php?article_id=367



On the Nuclear Power, waste is my biggest concern. Nuclear power can be good, but eventually you get so much waste that you have no where to put it. Has anyone ever seen inside the storage facilities where Nuclear waste goes? I have only seen it here on TV, but it didnt look good.

 

[tgordon]

Thanks GRD, I did not realize how low the numbers in my memory really were, I'm glad to see he is doing his part to warm things up for us. :-laf

 

[PKitzman]

I'm in favor of nuke, wind, water, AND bio/vegie oil. Ethanol is OK, but the energy balance isn't that great so I think we should be focussing more on the bio and veggie oil usage.



I personally don't give a **** that other countries can't afford our grain. In the long run the rag heads will be getting less of our money and when THEY buy our grain we will get more of their money... how does OGEC (Organization of Grain Exporting Countries) sound. This is OUR resourse and we need to exploit it in the best possible way.



Just imagine, in a 100 years you may see Saudi spend some of their cash and send some troops over here to protect our corn fields...



I'll be the first to admit that bio & veggie is not the total answer, but it CAN put a dent in our petro consumption and doesn't necessarily add CO2 to the atmosphere.



Nuke plants ARE plenty safe. In fact they are actually regulated too much right now in the US which is why there hasn't been one built in years. We really need to model the Europeans on this one. Spent fuel is an issue, but not a big one in my mind... and yes, you can put it in my back yard if you pay me enough.



Al's little presentation was pretty interesting in my opinion. He may be sucking up more than his share of energy, but at least he is doing something about public awareness on the global warming topic. All I've got to say about that is I'm glad I don't live anywhere near the coast. That being said it doesn't worry me all that much either. The world IS changing and it IS to late to stop it. It is now time to adapt to the changes and go on with life.



One of my biggest pet peaves is the US auto makers. They are seriously going to run themselves out of buisness if they don't wake up soon and start putting out some more efficient vehicles. Oh well, I guess in another 15 years we will all be buying a rice burner (probably from China).



CJ, maybe you should step up your quest against big oil and start selling your blend as a business? Make your customers sign a waiver so you are not liable for any vehicle damages and start getting after big oil in a big way. If I lived near you I'd buy your blend. I just don't have the time nor ambition to do it on my own. Maybe you already do sell it but just don't want the tax man knowing about it? Somebody needs to kick it off and sell it on a larger scale. There is certainly some serious money making potential in selling the veggie oil blend.

 

[cj hall]

fuel for sale ?

hello



thats sounds good to me i just dont like dealing with the govt they like my money and dont mind taking it.

the idea of taking a used product and making it in to a useable one is what i like. taking new veg from a company that refines the oil is a little better an just going to the big oil companys and buying diesel.

i dont see any problems with farmers growing thier own seeds and then making a blend fuel from the oil and feeding the cake to the cows/pigs/whatever. but some one has convinced them to take a price for there product and then tell them that it wont work to blend.



more on this later



cj hall

 

[tgordon]

PK, there is already at least one.



http://www.metromodemedia.com/innovationnews/milanbiod04.aspx



It is in Milan, MI. in the south eastern corner of the state. I do not know how they market the product.

 

[PKitzman]

Yes, there are quite a few biodiesel plants throughout the country. I think by the end of this year there should be enough plants on-line to produce close to 1% of the entire country's diesel consumption which is somewhere near 50 billion gallons. The US isn't the only country jumping on the biodiesel wagon so world-wide there is a lot of biodiesel production that is gearing up that will displace diesel usage. This should help control the cost of diesel in the future. Right now the percentage is too small to change it much, but it should help in the years to come to keep prices from getting crazy.



CJ, I've proposed this idea before and still think it will work. Set up co-ops throughout the country where you could bring in your used veggie oil from whatever or wherever and trade it in for clean ready to use mixed veggie oil or biodiesel (depending upon your preference). Say you have 55 gallons of used oil, you drop it off and get 20 or 30 gallons of ready to use fuel. The folks at the co-op process the 55 gallons and use the remainder to cover their costs. If you don't have oil to drop off you can just buy processed fuel from the co-op. You could do this on your own right now with your set up. Maybe you already do and just don't want to say anything to keep mr tax man away... I understand. Even if you just did this small scale, you could keep all your buddies with fuel and maybe make a few extra bucks.

 

[Thunderbolt]

it would only take one year supply of fuel to grow the next years supply of oil

lets not make it in to biodiesel lets crush it making it oil and cattle /pig/ feed

i dont think the way to go is biodiesel what i would like to see is running svo heat it up and burn it , this is what we need to do. the american farmer will grow it and the american people will burn it. the oil companys will not control it.



as far as nuclear power if thats what you want then is it ok to put it in your back yard?



be careful what you wish for !!!!!!



cj hall

I'm there. We've had a Nuclear power plant in my back yard since the 70's. It produces very clean energy. It hasn't had a release or lost time accident of any kind since it went on-line. We also have a $h!tload of refineries here in Jersey. They regularly release fumes and oil spray and other crap. They tend to have big fires during summer thunderstorms. The amount of byproduct left at the end of the atomic fuel's life is small in comparison to the amount of byproduct that is burnt off during the refining process. Stop by your local refinery and see for yourself.

I'm not getting into a p1$$in' match but if I had the choice of the two I'd live AT the Nuke plant rather than be downwind of the refinery.