2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission control arms

[PVanderlugt]

Getting a "clunck" under the floorboard every one in a while when turning, feels like right under my feet. After a little search here on TDR, Probably control arm bushings. Are these replaceable? anything better then stock?, also with the KORE recon kit and the 2 inch lift, does anyone make adjustable or longer arms?, to put the caster back to spec ? worth using? enough adjustment in the factory arms? After all the new parts in the front steering/suspension still drives like crap
Thanks Pete

 

[ttbird]

Yes, they make adj. / longer arms and they are ok for correcting caster. Seen some on ebay with posts about them here but Carli are the ones I used. They have 2 types, kill and overkill, both way better than stock. Dodge Ram Suspension, Dodge Suspension and Ford Super Duty Suspension Systems - Carli Suspension, Inc

 

[JGK]

Pete,



There's guy on the Comp-D forum named "dieseldork" who custom makes control arms any length you want out of DOM tubing. He quoted me $650 for a full set several months ago, but don't chisel that in stone. But you might contact him.



I started feeling a clunk last winter right at my feet and figured it was the bushings getting loose. It would happen when I hit certain bumps in the road just right. As the weather warmed, it got better. I figured the rubber was getting softer and swelling just a tad. I replaced them all with Energy Suspension polyurethane ones a month or so ago.



Honestly, I think at least some of the clunk is still there. I'll know when the weather gets cold. Can't figure out what else it would be. The ball joints in the steering knuckles at the ends of the axle seem tight. Track bar, tie rod ends and drag link have all been rebuilt with Lukes Links and are tight.



But to answer your question, yes, the busing are replaceable (obviously) and they really aren't hard to do, especially if you have a press to push the old ones out. You'd be amazed how big they are when they get pushed out of the housings. Some people burn them out with a torch, but what a mess!



-Jay

 

[BEmmert]

I like winter, reason being that the front end of my pickup feels solid again. Its within specs now, but gets a loose feel and makes a bit more noise than on cool days.

 

[VolsFan]

I felt this clunk under my left foot back in the winter. I thought it was control arms too, I ordered a set a guy makes on ebay, very happy with them. I think they were like $300 or something, I cant remember, very well made, poly bushings, tubular design with grease fittings. Handles a lot better, and looks really good, but didnt solve the clunking problem though. Then through the advice of another TDR member I went and checked out my transmission linkage (Auto trans) and discovered play in it. Adressed it, and no more clunking feeling in the floor. Do the cheap fixes before spending money is what I learned

 

[KYOUNG]

Check your front Knuckle U joints also for wear, they will clunk when you get off the throttle!

 

[jdooner]

Clunk

Mine was doing the same thing a few months ago, sounded like it was on the right side, it turned to be the two nuts on the top of the control arm had come loose. These are visible from top. 2wd. Hope yours is as simple.

 

[PVanderlugt]

Thanks for all the replies guy's, I will do some looking around under there and see if I can find something loose. never thought of the shift linkage, definitely will give that a good lookover, U-joint looked good when I did ball joints a couple of months ago. will report any findings
Pete

 

[rivercat]

Pete,


I started feeling a clunk last winter right at my feet and figured it was the bushings getting loose. It would happen when I hit certain bumps in the road just right. As the weather warmed, it got better. I figured the rubber was getting softer and swelling just a tad. I replaced them all with Energy Suspension polyurethane ones a month or so ago.


-Jay

Jay,
Do the metal bushings inside the poly ones wear at all? I am sure my polys are gone- egged but not sure about the metal sleave that the bolt rides in or even the bolts themselves.


The dummys that installed my lift didn't get the bolts tight enough so I enjoyed about 2 months of good driving then the bolts came loose and caster whent out of whack and I been fighting it ever since. I have the energy units to change and have done ball joins the t steering conversion and new bilstein shocks and the thoren trackbar. All thats left is a BD steering stabiliser ( I hear the berring is better than the original DSS) and maybe the gear box and shaft. Then if it still drives like crap its off to the dealer to trade...

I plan on using threadlock blue on all the crossmember bolts and even the caster bolts, after the "Final" alignment I will take a paint pen and mark the positions of the cams so I can repeat the adjustment after applying the thread locker.


BTW D or 8 ply rated tires make any steering prob worse with the flex of the soft sidewalls. The switch from 37" D rated coopers to 35" E rated Toyos was night and day.

 

[SRath]

If I did not already have a set of adjustable, poly-bushed control arms to install, here is what I would use to easily build a killer set (makes me think about selling mine before I use them): Use these ends (now available in both 2 3/8 and 2 5/8"and left and right hand thread):
Forged Chromoly 2. 63" Ballistic Joint

These are superior, imo, to any others, including currie's, due to the adjuster nut and set screw vs. snap ring design. You can adjust some eventual wear out before replacing the inserts.

I would use Currie's bungs due to the hex:
Currie Enterprises CJ Axle Parts

And would either buy the DOM steel locally or order it here:
Products | Buy Small Quantities Online | Allmetalsinc.com

Two simple welds per control arm and you now have arms that are FAR stronger than the axle brackets they bolt to, incredibly flexible, infinitely adjustable (within a given range), greasable, and easily and cheaply rebuilt.

But they will cost you @ $600 to build when you take all the parts (except the 4 tubes) times 8...
$150 per arm.

For that matter, it looks to me like a guy could build a superior adjustable trackbar just as easily and much more cheaply if you already have the frame mount conversion bracket for a 3rd gen style bar...

 

[SRath]

I, too, had some "clunking" going on under my truck for awhile. Turns out the tiny u-joint strap bolts were VERY loose. Last folks to touch them was the transmission shop that did my 5th gear nutjob...

 

[LandShark]

Another source of the front end 'clunk' is lower shock absorber bolts.

 

[Joe Mc]

These 94-02 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Custom Length Control Arms - Top Gun Customz have been working very well for me, just over two years now.

 

[rivercat]

I Just want to run stock control arms and just needed to know what to expect when I take my lift off. I bought a set of energy bushings from summit but not sure if the steel sleaves will be worn or even the bolts. Im shooting for stock tightness and handling. Seems like 3 months after my 5" lift and 36" -14. 50 super swampers the front end whent to crap and I been fighting it ever since...

 

[SRath]

The sleeves and bolts should not move when installed and should not be worn. The polyurethane Energy bushings rotate on the sleeve. The frame and axle brackets clamp down on the ends of the sleeves, preventing rotation. The poly bushings should stay stationary within the control arm eyes.

Stock rubber bushings are bonded to the inner sleeve and outer metal shell. Nothing moves or "rotates"; or at least is intended to. Control arm movement, what little they allow, comes from torsional twist of the rubber inserts.

Polyurethane bushings are much harder than stock rubber and are not bonded and do not allow any significant torsional twist and therefore must pivot or "rotate" on the inner sleeve. That is why they need to be kept greased and rubber (stock) bushings do not.

 

[Hammer]

Here are a couple of photos of Comp D member DieselDork's control arms on my truck. I went to him after a long exhaustive talk with him about how they were made and am very pleased with the job they have done. They were installed back in March of this year and thus far have been flawless in their performance and really have made the truck drive better than it ever has.



I run my truck with the D25 coils up front and twin Bilstein 5100's for added support and ride. I am convinced now with how much more free the front end is due to Mitchell's arms that our trucks have been under shocked from the factory. The ride is firm and smooth over most any type of road and yet it drives though the rough spots instead of bouncing all over trying to get through them.



I went to Mitchell because I could not get DT Pro-Fab to answer their emails nor answer their phone. I wanted my control arms to be a 1/2" longer for the added height of the coils and was disgusted when I couldn't get DT or their vendors to get the arms for me. If your looking for a good quality set of arms his work is very good and the time to my house was very quick. My next item from him is his front shock mount conversion tops. He makes a new shock tower top which allows a owner to not use the top stud mount front shocks and use all eye shocks on all four corners... ... . Andy

 

[SRath]

Andy: . I am convinced now with how much more free the front end is due to Mitchell's arms that our trucks have been under shocked from the factory. The ride is firm and smooth over most any type of road and yet it drives though the rough spots instead of bouncing all over trying to get through them.

I agree that the heavy Cummins could use more shock valving. But the "much more free" frontend and the resulting smoothness in travel is due to those custom control arms with the johnny joints you have. Smooth, full arc travel and no binding or slop. Factory bonded metal-rubber bushings severely limit travel to the miniscule amount the rubber will flex or twist torsionally. Clamp the bushing eye of each type firmly in a vice and move the arm up and down to see and feel the dramatic difference. Polyurethane bushings fall somewhere in between, but are much more like the johnny joints than they are like bonded rubber factory bushings.

 

[Hammer]

Scott...

The joints that Mitchell uses are not "Johnny Joints" they are Ballistic Joints.



having had my front end apart before because I was running the Solid steel lower control arms I knew the "Johnny Joints" were a bad idea as thats what SS uses. With not enough length on the steel bushings in the center the arms when torqued down properly catch on the frame mounts and bind up the suspension not allowing any proper articulation. This is also a problem for those who decide to go with the Energy Suspension poly replacement bushings as I have my upper control arms here who had them installed way back when we installed the SS lowers.



The Ballistic Joints allow for a better articulation as when torqued down they do not bind as the arms bushing does not ever topuch the frame mounts. These arms were some of the best money I have spent to date and as soon as I figure out which remote resivior shock I want then I am done with my suspension work. I am very dissappointed in how bad the Bilstiens finish have gotten from the daily driving grind and I want to move onto something a tad better. Right now I am torn between the Sway-A-Ways and the new Edelbrock remotes and am looking at all of my options... ... ... ..... Andy

 

[budnate]

if you dont mind me asking out in the open, what does a set cost?



Thnx B.

 

[SRath]

Those are Ballistic Joints I posted in the photos in my earlier post (#10). They only differ from johnny joints in using adjustable nuts instead of snap rings and in using "Nylatron" instead of urethane for bushing material. Same exact design and concept, but a bit more refined.

"Johnny joints" were developed by John Currie (hence the name). They have since been copied and refined slightly by various manufacturers. They all have a combination shaft/ball that rides in bushings sort of like a heim. They offer far greater misalignment than solid rubber or poly bushings, but cushion better than heims and are easily rebuilt, unlike heims. Here is a good video explaining them: CurrieTV : Featured CurrieTV // on the PowerTV Network

Ballistic Joints are @ $40 apiece. Click the link in post #10 to learn all about them. You will see they are a johnny joint knockoff with improvements.

Build a set of killer control arms using threaded, forged male ends and DOM as pictured in post #10:
4 x 2 5/8 Ballistic joints = $160
4 x 2 3/8 Ballistic Joints = $160
8 x Currie hex bungs = $160
5 to 6 feet of DOM = @ $80
Total (not incl. shipping) = @ $560

Like I said in post #10, build the ultimate control arms using just two welds apiece, with full adjustability like a tierod end, cost about $600 when all is said and done.