Convert HPCR to CNG

[tp0d]

I`ve read some things around the web bout converting a diesel to Natural gas... seems like you have to convert to spark ignition, dunno about injectors. .



Anyone shed any light? With natural gas going about 1. 50$ per comparable gallon of diesel $4, its looking interesting.



Dual fuel would be my only way to do it, if its even possible



-j

 

[HBarlow]

Are you an engine engineer with a large staff and a manufacturing shop to assist?

 

[BarryG]

I have heard of the same thing you are talking about. I listened with interest but didnt act or even write down the name of the company that offered it. I was out of town driving when I heard it on the radio. I half heartedly tried to find it on the web after I got home a week or so later with no luck since I couldnt remember the name of the company. The company that offered the conversion also had a unit that you could hook up to your home natural gas supply (if you have it) so that you could fill up your vehicle tank at home. I dont remember if it truely converted it to cng or if it was more like a propane fumigation system that used cng instead of propane. If you find it post it up and good luck.

 

[S.Morris]

I have read a little bit on the subject, as there is a large trucking firm out of Montreal that has many NG rigs on the road. They say they are seeing 60% reduction in fuel prices but can only refuel in there own yards so must carefully plan trips for these trucks. Mostly using where towing double 52 footers.



I cannot remember the name of retrofitter for cummins I was looking at but they could do duel fuel. They basically use diesel fuel at inj rate of an idle to start combustion for the natural gas. Cost of retro was several thousand dollars. I did not calculate a payback point.

 

[ata]

CNG is a viable option, But the biggest problem is the tank. In Los Angeles the transit system buses run on CNG. But the tanks are on top of the busses and there are two of them and about 15 inches in diameter and as long as the bus. The next problem is where to fuel up. The CNG is pressurized to about 2300 psi in the tanks. So you would need one heck of a compressor to fill the tank. There is also an LNG system out there that injects LNG like diesel fuel. But there is less info. about it. These fuels are up and coming but not really here yet. I think they want to use all the oil up first.

 

[JFought]

here in tx nat gas is dirt cheap. . (in the middle of shale gas field) i am also interested on a conversion/ or info on cng only.

 

[mainer29]

I found these resources on Google. http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/natural_gas_related.html http://www.ngvamerica.org/pdfs/Available_Vehicles_and_Engines.pdf
http://www.google.com/webhp?source=...da8af56f54edf1&bpcl=38897761&biw=1440&bih=775

 

[RustyJC]

Although there may be aftermarket conversions available from other sources, Cummins is working with Westport on CNG/LNG versions of the ISB - see HERE.

Rusty

 

[Bill Stockard]

With natural gas going about 1. 50$ per comparable gallon of diesel $4, its looking interesting.

Dual fuel would be my only way to do it, if its even possible

-j

Bear in mind that natural gas has less heat energy than LP (propane) gas, gasoline, and diesel fuel. Your mileage will be different when using natural gas instead of diesel fuel as the primary fuel.

Bill

 

[moparguy]

You can run a diesel on natgas and yes dual fuel is possible and common on conversions. However natural gas still requires a percentage of diesel to act as the spark fuel. Natural gas will not ignite from compression so it's generally retrofitted using a system very similar to the propane kits most are familiar with. Back when I worked for a living as a manager for a natural gas company we installed a fast fill cng (compressed natural gas, lng is liquid natural gas which is what most big trucks use) station in my town and converted most of our fleet to cng. It does have advantages, such as clean oil almost forever, fill at home using a home compressor (Phill). and low fuel cost. Their are disadvantages however, some are loss of bed space if tanks are mounted in bed (although small tanks can be mounted underneath). To get meaningful distance between fills you have to go with inthebed. Cost of conversion is high, this "can" be offset with both Federal tax credits and sometimes state tax incentives.

The real cost of a conversion is the tanks, EXPENSIVE. About the only cheap option is dot approved tanks like oxygen or nitrogen tanks you'd find in most shops. These can be bundled together and will work, only problem is pressure is limited to 2400 psi and you really want to go with a 4000 psi system to maximize the amount of fuel you can carry. Back when I was in the biz the good tanks were constructed using Kevlar and aluminum. Contrary to many uniformed opinions, these highpressure systems are safe when installed according to industry guidelines.

Lots of info out there, just use Mr. Google.

Good luck, RR

 

[Roostre]

Why I will be giving it a go...

I am converting my truck for the following reasons:



1. Fueling station 1 mile from home $1. 49 per gallon

2. CNG has no particulates to speak of. This will reduce the loading on the DPF and reduce regeneration cycle and wasted fuel.

3. Figuring 18,000 miles a year the system will save me about $1900/year in fuel costs. (Not proven yet, but I believe it will be more when you include lower regen costs and longer oil change intervals. )

4. My father does conversions professionally and has now done 3 Sprinter diesel vans that work well. He has done 25+ spark ignition conversions. I am getting a substantial discount on parts and labor, so it makes it much easier decision than some of you would have.

5. Makes the inability to delete less of a problem.



Cons:

1. Will lose some bed space. I plan to deal with this by using two 5 gallon tanks placed in front of each wheelwell and up against the front of the bed. Hoping I can customize a toolbox to fit over tanks to retain useability of that space and still have it look good.

2. A second stop to refill each time I need fuel.

3. Extra weight of system (not much of an issue in these beasts)

4. Must use a system that maximizes CNG flow at cruise and cuts CNG flow when loading the motor to prevent causing peak cylinder pressure problem and popping head-gasket.

5. Tanks are expensive and have an expiration date. I was lucky enough to find a good used tank and brackets for $350 that expires in 11/2015. I am looking for a second tank that I can plumb in series at a later date.



Some good info:

http://www.rasoenterprises.com/index.php/alternative-fuels/ngv

http://www.marvinscng.com/diesel-electronic-kits.html

http://www.delucafuelproducts.com/

 

[Simplysmn]

From what I have heard about CNG it's a pain my good friend is a mech for State of Ca and he said they bought a couple street sweeper's with CNG and it takes several hour's just to get a 3/4 tank and over 9 to fill it the problem they are running into is the sweeper can't make it a whole shift without running out of fuel and being it takes so long to even get 3/4 tank it's a Pain they hate them

 

[moparguy]

Simplysmn, you've just identified one of the mistakes sometimes made with CNG. Many times people in a false economy move, under-size the fueling stations or expect them to fuel more vehicles than is possible in the allotted time. Sounds like your friends location is using slow fill compression which is designed to give a fill overnight. If properly sized, this type fill works great. At the end of the work day the worker connects to the cng system, next morning the vehicle is filled and ready for a days work. No wasted time filling with diesel or gasoline.

However if too many vehicles are attempting to fill in the available time, they may not get a full tank. Or if the vehicle's tanks are undersized they don't make it through the work day, again the problem your friend is fighting.

The best solution is a slow fill set-up for most vehicles, with a fast fill station to top off or just use as needed.

The public fast fill station I was responsible for filled in the same time required for a gasoline fill-up. We could have calibrated it so it was even faster than a comparable liquid fuel fill, but to make the experience as user friendly as possible we kept fill times about the same since that's what folks were used too.

Sounds like the city either cheaped out or had poor consultant advise.

 

[Simplysmn]

Most Likly a little of Both Here is a funny 1 for you up at 1 of the yard's they have a frontend loader , snow plow n a road grader because the bean counter's thought these's vehicles were not being used enough they up and Sold them so now if we get a Big snow and I 15 get's snow at Mountain pass there is no State Equiptment to clear the road's they will have to rent it and wait for it to arrive before they can even think of clearing the road's . At the shop he work's at they have a Forklift that you don't use normally every day unless you are moving thing's around they almost Sold it also because it didn't show daily use as far as I'm conserned this is due too the Stupid Bean Counter's in Sacramento don't know there rearend from a hole in the ground thinking they can save a Buck by selling stuf they Need . Go Figure#@$%!#@$%!#@$%! I could go on and On it's Crazy