I installed IE 6 last week it's great for blocking sites from reading your cookies. There is a icon that comes on in your toolbar when someone who is blocked tries to read them. The icon never comes on when I'm on TDR unless there is post by in thread byRATTILINRAM. He thinks it is due to the flag in his sig, I agree. Just goes to show you the extent that the cookie hunters are looking at us. What do you computer whiz's think?
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Cookies question
- Thread starter illflem
- Start Date
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Homestead cookies you because it advertises.
If you got to a member's site, the server grabs your IP and inserts a little javascript to open a new window and put advertising in it.
The cookie would be to determine if you've been there before, and probably to determine if you are a member, in which case, you probably get different advertising.
Remember, according to the cookie specification, ONLY the domain that sent a cookie can read that cookie.
That's why banners often come from an advertising company, not from the site you're visiting. You can't send a cookie from X for site Y. So, the banner comes along with the cookie, and the so does the reading capacity and the referring page - which is how the advertiser tracks who gets credit for the hit or click or purchase.
I find those "free" places annoying, that pop up advertising. I was working in the computer lab a couple weeks ago, and a friend sitting next to me was looking for a specific version of some shareware. Anyway, the yahoo search took her to a page with a huge list of files. As soon as she clicked on the "download" link, about 10 differnt porn pages opened on her computer... As well as a "404", indicating the link didn't have the file anyway. She was dumbfounded (and slightly mortified). Anyway, every page she closed, tried to open at least 2 new ones. It took her at least 30 seconds of clicking to outrun the downloading pages and finally get them shut off. Someone got a bunch of "hits" to advertisers, but none of it was voluntary.
But that's a malicious use of both cookies and javascript. It's the same thing (just not as malicious) that Homestead uses to control it's advertising.
If you got to a member's site, the server grabs your IP and inserts a little javascript to open a new window and put advertising in it.
The cookie would be to determine if you've been there before, and probably to determine if you are a member, in which case, you probably get different advertising.
Remember, according to the cookie specification, ONLY the domain that sent a cookie can read that cookie.
That's why banners often come from an advertising company, not from the site you're visiting. You can't send a cookie from X for site Y. So, the banner comes along with the cookie, and the so does the reading capacity and the referring page - which is how the advertiser tracks who gets credit for the hit or click or purchase.
I find those "free" places annoying, that pop up advertising. I was working in the computer lab a couple weeks ago, and a friend sitting next to me was looking for a specific version of some shareware. Anyway, the yahoo search took her to a page with a huge list of files. As soon as she clicked on the "download" link, about 10 differnt porn pages opened on her computer... As well as a "404", indicating the link didn't have the file anyway. She was dumbfounded (and slightly mortified). Anyway, every page she closed, tried to open at least 2 new ones. It took her at least 30 seconds of clicking to outrun the downloading pages and finally get them shut off. Someone got a bunch of "hits" to advertisers, but none of it was voluntary.
But that's a malicious use of both cookies and javascript. It's the same thing (just not as malicious) that Homestead uses to control it's advertising.
My new computer came with IE 6. I like it.
I've noticed that it's slower since I downloaded Lavasoft adware though.
Maybe it's something else, but it seems it's the lavasoft.
Bill, what do you keep your privacy on? I run mine oh high unless the site dont let me on it.
Cant get my webmail unless I lower it.
Eric
I've noticed that it's slower since I downloaded Lavasoft adware though.
Maybe it's something else, but it seems it's the lavasoft.
Bill, what do you keep your privacy on? I run mine oh high unless the site dont let me on it.
Cant get my webmail unless I lower it.
Eric
Eric, I'm running on medium. It seems to block most of the cookies but not all, Lavasoft still catches a few. Have only had to give one time cookie permission twice, maybe I'll try turning it up. I don't think Ad-aware can slow down your internet, as it only runs when you tell it to and doesn't need to be online. Ad-aware doesn't block cookies like IE6, it kicks the ones off your computer that get though. I've had the IE6 display as many as 8 blocked cookies at once from one site- How Stuff Works.
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So what whould I do?
Does this mean I can't have my flag anymore???,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or is it really no big deal?
All of my report cards in school always had the box checked where it said - "Gets along well with others"
Does this mean I can't have my flag anymore???,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or is it really no big deal?
All of my report cards in school always had the box checked where it said - "Gets along well with others"
Now *I* would call that denial of service, send email to the originators, and block those ad sites permanently from my network. If it happens to me again on my computer(s) here at home, I'll be sending a *lot* of email to all the net admins betwixt the ad source and me. I won't flood the originator with email, but I'll send daily email until I get the proper, desired, response.
Fest3er
The otherside....
I'll have no pity when any of you moan when some of your favority sites go belly up because they can't depend on their ad revenue. Many people think bandwidth is free but its actually quite expensive for sites with any decent amount of traffic... .
Just wait until I get done with my code that blocks surfers who use ad blockers. No, I'm not kidding... ... I've really got such a beast and will release it for sale over at cgi-resources.com when its ready.
-Ken
I'll have no pity when any of you moan when some of your favority sites go belly up because they can't depend on their ad revenue.
Many people think bandwidth is free but its actually quite expensive for sites with any decent amount of traffic... . Just wait until I get done with my code that blocks surfers who use ad blockers. No, I'm not kidding... ... I've really got such a beast and will release it for sale over at cgi-resources.com when its ready.
-Ken
OK,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
YEE,,,,,,HA,,,,,,,
YEE,,,,,,HA,,,,,,,
Follow up
Just a follow up, I was referring to blocking ads and cookies, not to sites that barage users with 4-5 pop-ups, porno ads, etc. These are generally not LEGIT sites, but teenage boys or losers who can't find a legitimate source of income. Real sites seek to attract users, not **** them off.
Cookies, in and of themselves are harmless and the media has raised a lot of paranoia. Generally, when the media discusses technology, they are clueless morons and alarmists. Cookies DO NOT give out personal information, do not gather information off your hard-drive, etc. All a cookies is a variable (millions of which are used every second by all your programs on your system) that is stored remotely by the web server. There are INERT and non-executable.
Since web browsers are stateless (ie, ALL information about what you're doing is lost between each page request), a variable that exists between pages has to be used to retrieve state. This variable is the cookie. Cookies are absolutely needed to proper operation of most sites.
Example: You log on to TDR. Well since more than one person can share the same IP due to proxy servers, YBulletin makes a cookie using unique, randomly generated number. Every time your browser requests a page, YBB requests your id cookie. If it gets it, it looks on the server hard-drive for login information and validates you.
Banner ads, such as the ones used here, use cookies. Each banner places a unique number in a cookie in your browser. When you click the ad, the unique number is retrieved by the system that served the ad so it can quickly look up the ad in its database and redirect you to the correct web page.
Banner networks such as Double click can use the cookies to track you across several sites, but that doesn't mean they know "Bob Smith, who lives at XYXville, Anystate, SomeZipcode" visited A, B, C, F, X, Y and Z and purchased 42 magazines. Rather it knows user A874521010-29423 went to A, B, C, F, X, Y and Z, therefore we'll serve up ads that are targeted for the type of content at A, B, C, F, X, Y and Z.
My personal business's web site used Engage, Doubleclick and About.com for a long time. They never got any personal information from our users merely by serving them ads. They did, however, enable us to operate for a long period of time while we built up infrastructure for complete self-sufficiency. We are to another make/model what TDR is to Dodge turbo diesels but we did not have the benefit of a magazine to help keep the site operational. Without ads my site, along with a lot of other really good content/community sites, would have bitten the dust. That's something to think about... ...
Ken
TDR Admin
Just a follow up, I was referring to blocking ads and cookies, not to sites that barage users with 4-5 pop-ups, porno ads, etc. These are generally not LEGIT sites, but teenage boys or losers who can't find a legitimate source of income. Real sites seek to attract users, not **** them off.
Cookies, in and of themselves are harmless and the media has raised a lot of paranoia. Generally, when the media discusses technology, they are clueless morons and alarmists. Cookies DO NOT give out personal information, do not gather information off your hard-drive, etc. All a cookies is a variable (millions of which are used every second by all your programs on your system) that is stored remotely by the web server. There are INERT and non-executable.
Since web browsers are stateless (ie, ALL information about what you're doing is lost between each page request), a variable that exists between pages has to be used to retrieve state. This variable is the cookie. Cookies are absolutely needed to proper operation of most sites.
Example: You log on to TDR. Well since more than one person can share the same IP due to proxy servers, YBulletin makes a cookie using unique, randomly generated number. Every time your browser requests a page, YBB requests your id cookie. If it gets it, it looks on the server hard-drive for login information and validates you.
Banner ads, such as the ones used here, use cookies. Each banner places a unique number in a cookie in your browser. When you click the ad, the unique number is retrieved by the system that served the ad so it can quickly look up the ad in its database and redirect you to the correct web page.
Banner networks such as Double click can use the cookies to track you across several sites, but that doesn't mean they know "Bob Smith, who lives at XYXville, Anystate, SomeZipcode" visited A, B, C, F, X, Y and Z and purchased 42 magazines. Rather it knows user A874521010-29423 went to A, B, C, F, X, Y and Z, therefore we'll serve up ads that are targeted for the type of content at A, B, C, F, X, Y and Z.
My personal business's web site used Engage, Doubleclick and About.com for a long time. They never got any personal information from our users merely by serving them ads. They did, however, enable us to operate for a long period of time while we built up infrastructure for complete self-sufficiency. We are to another make/model what TDR is to Dodge turbo diesels but we did not have the benefit of a magazine to help keep the site operational. Without ads my site, along with a lot of other really good content/community sites, would have bitten the dust. That's something to think about... ...
Ken
TDR Admin
Amazon
I fail to see how their use of cookies isn't benign. Cookies don't suddenly start running by themselves, gather information about you from your computer and send it to them. They don't send data to the FBI telling them you have porno, they don't pull your SSN and send it. They are NON-EXECUTABLE. They are a remote variable used to maintain state.
Amazon.com has millions of daily visitors. It keeps track of the page trail you used to make a purchase. By determining the routes most likely to result in a sale, they can streamline, optimize and increase their sales. By placing a cookie on your browser with a unique, randomly generated id number, it can match up who you are when you come back.
Without this, it could not provide their extremely easy to use one-click checkout. Without this, they could not place recommended books that most likely match up to your likes based on what other users have purchased when transversing similar paths, etc. I've never seen anyone complain about how easy Amazon is to use. Or how on target their recommendations are. Or how they can maintain their great prices due to optimizing sales. It results in books that better suit my needs when I shop there.
I fail to see how their use of a cookie to track your page state is any different then Office Depot placing a camera in the store to see where you look first (this type of thing has gone on for DECADES, using human counters before video cameras). COOKIE!!! Restaurants hire people to watch customers reactions to see which color combinations result in more sales. COOKIE!
Did you know that based on this, most stores place the high-profit items to the right hand side of the entrance? COOKIE! Or that grocery stores put the basics such as produce on the right of the store and the impulse items such as ice-cream on the left? COOKIE!
You know all those frequent shopper and discount cards all the major stores use. COOKIE!!!! Every time you make a purchase and use that card, your purchasing choices are tracked. They then base future discounts and incentives on that. They sell that data to other companies. COOKIE!!! Does this give out your personal information? Nope. It doesn't link card ABCDS19 to Bob Jones. It links card ABCDS19 to the purchasing decisions made by card ABCDS19.
Did you know that without cookies, you can't browse the boards here, maintain your time zone, etc? Cookies are REQUIRED to maintain interactivity because HTML is stateless. From a programmer's standpoint, there HAS to be a way to maintain state between pages and from session to session. How? COOKIE! There HAS to be constant between pages to main state. COOKIE! You can't use the user's IP address because proxy servers can assign the same IP to several users. You can't use referrer information because not all browsers give it. You can use URL session tags, but they won't work for repeat visits. The ONLY solution is to be able to maintain state. How? COOKIE!
What companies chose to do with your personal information once you fill out an order form is a matter of their policies, but the cookies don't give out that information. The failure of private information staying would be due to this, not because of a state variable.
Ken
I fail to see how their use of cookies isn't benign. Cookies don't suddenly start running by themselves, gather information about you from your computer and send it to them. They don't send data to the FBI telling them you have porno, they don't pull your SSN and send it. They are NON-EXECUTABLE. They are a remote variable used to maintain state.
Amazon.com has millions of daily visitors. It keeps track of the page trail you used to make a purchase. By determining the routes most likely to result in a sale, they can streamline, optimize and increase their sales. By placing a cookie on your browser with a unique, randomly generated id number, it can match up who you are when you come back.
Without this, it could not provide their extremely easy to use one-click checkout. Without this, they could not place recommended books that most likely match up to your likes based on what other users have purchased when transversing similar paths, etc. I've never seen anyone complain about how easy Amazon is to use. Or how on target their recommendations are. Or how they can maintain their great prices due to optimizing sales. It results in books that better suit my needs when I shop there.
I fail to see how their use of a cookie to track your page state is any different then Office Depot placing a camera in the store to see where you look first (this type of thing has gone on for DECADES, using human counters before video cameras). COOKIE!!! Restaurants hire people to watch customers reactions to see which color combinations result in more sales. COOKIE!
Did you know that based on this, most stores place the high-profit items to the right hand side of the entrance? COOKIE! Or that grocery stores put the basics such as produce on the right of the store and the impulse items such as ice-cream on the left? COOKIE!
You know all those frequent shopper and discount cards all the major stores use. COOKIE!!!! Every time you make a purchase and use that card, your purchasing choices are tracked. They then base future discounts and incentives on that. They sell that data to other companies. COOKIE!!! Does this give out your personal information? Nope. It doesn't link card ABCDS19 to Bob Jones. It links card ABCDS19 to the purchasing decisions made by card ABCDS19.
Did you know that without cookies, you can't browse the boards here, maintain your time zone, etc? Cookies are REQUIRED to maintain interactivity because HTML is stateless. From a programmer's standpoint, there HAS to be a way to maintain state between pages and from session to session. How? COOKIE! There HAS to be constant between pages to main state. COOKIE! You can't use the user's IP address because proxy servers can assign the same IP to several users. You can't use referrer information because not all browsers give it. You can use URL session tags, but they won't work for repeat visits. The ONLY solution is to be able to maintain state. How? COOKIE!
What companies chose to do with your personal information once you fill out an order form is a matter of their policies, but the cookies don't give out that information. The failure of private information staying would be due to this, not because of a state variable.
Ken
They don't get "gigs" of data daily. They do, I'm sure, generate traffic reports based upon many megs or perhaps even gigs of verbose logs, which are then analyzed by programs to track the effectiveness of advertising, banners, advertisers, and click-through ratios.
None of it is "searched" nor is any attempt made to track any individual computer or user. Nobody has the time or manpower to try to accomplish such a gargantuan task. Besides, it would be a waste of money and time... and as far as I know, Amazon's not exactly flowing over in cash to waste on useless activity.
Simple....
The waste of time and money to sift through logs and cookies has nothing to do with the cookie manager in IE. The cookie manager is a user warm and fuzzy.
It IS a huge waste of time and money to sift through logs to track each individual user. TDR server alone generates a gigabyte of log files per week and it takes about 3 hours to generate general log statistics. It would take weeks to generate stats for every user. Companies are interested in trends, not in each Joe Shmoe.
The waste of time and money to sift through logs and cookies has nothing to do with the cookie manager in IE. The cookie manager is a user warm and fuzzy.
It IS a huge waste of time and money to sift through logs to track each individual user. TDR server alone generates a gigabyte of log files per week and it takes about 3 hours to generate general log statistics. It would take weeks to generate stats for every user. Companies are interested in trends, not in each Joe Shmoe.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
