Coolant Concern - Red Vs. Green

[Joe Mc]

Just did the coolant changeout. Read the recent TDR Shade Tree on the specifics first, very helpful. The article mentioned Texaco 5 year 150k mile Dex Cool silicate free anti-freeze as being top notch stuff. I used the Texaco stuff and distilled water.



Here's my (uneducated in the particullars of anti-freeze) concern, complicated by my neighbors statement. He told me the red stuff is garbage and eats away at the heater core etc. He also said in 99 GM recommended pulling the red stuff out, flushing with an acid mix and put the green back in. Then he said he had it in his 66 impala and swapped it out immediately after the heater core went bad (my thought is it was just an old heater core and failed). He means well I'm sure but is a very extreem person and want's to think he's right. Hopefully he's not.



Does anyone have some history, positive or negative, regarding the Texaco Dex-Cool. I plan to change as per manual regardless of the 5/150k claim. Am I OK with this or not? I'd hate to find out on the way to the Grand Canyon in 3 weeks that I should have listened to my neighbor:--)



I think it's probably good stuff otherwise it would not have made it in to an article in the TDR. Just the same I need to inquire from those that have used it or have had experience with it.



Sorry for the long - but really bothering me - thanks.

 

[BV]

Dex-Cool

There was an article in the Oregonian some time back that talked about Dex-Cool and how good it was IF you did not have any air in the system. Seems the problems start when air gets to it and causes it to gel or thicken and plug the smaller passages like the heater/radiator core.



Do a search on here and the web and you will find some more information.



As for me - I will stick with the green stuff and change it out every 3-4 years.



Edit: Here is an ugly story : http://www.geocities.com/b_gillie/dexcool_problems.html

or this is good info : http://www.imcool.com/articles/antifreeze-coolant/dexcool-macs2001.htm

 

[A. Brown]

It's virtually impossible not to have some air in the system when you change out, and probably afterwards also. The last change out I did involved removing the thermostat, backfilling, etc. and still had the usual amt of air in the system

 

[LSMITH]

Joe, I have about 20K miles on the red stuff with no problems at all. I used Rotella, but it is very similar. I would not worry about it.

 

[Joe Mc]

BV - thanks for the edits. Appears there are two sides to this coin, per the two items in the edits.



Decisions, decisions . . . . . . . .

 

[emarsh]

there was an article in june car & driver on the new red coolant. The engineer said not to use it on older cars, and someone said that the 01? ford mustang cobra manual warns specifcally against using it, i had just put it in my wifes 96 cobra (32v DOHC all aluminum engine) so I changed it out the next day. I would do research on it before recommending it to anybody. I also have in several other cars?? I would certainly like to hear other opinions on the stuff for older systems from someone in the know. ED

 

[Chipstien]

Since we are on the topic of different colored coolant......

I recently swapped the 190 for a 180 stat and used the Fleetguard pre-mixed anti-freeze sold at the Cummins dealer. Mine is blue... . I am running the red Prestone Long Life in a 79 Ford F-150 and have had no problems except for when my dad checked the coolant the other day and thought there was no anti-freeze in it. Had to explain that is was red instead of green. FYI, fuel milage is looking very well on the 180..... waiting untill I have 9 full fillups with 190 and 180 before I post the results. First four tankfulls have gains of at least 1. 4 miles per gallon. :--) I am stoked so far and will keep yall posted on the final results.

 

[Powder Extreme]

Chipstein, where did you get a 180 degree stat? Can you give me part number and price? I tried my local Cummins dealer today, no luck, only a 190. Blue antifreeze huh? Cool!! Any advantages Cummins says? Like 20 more hp and 3 extra mpg? How much was the blue stuff? Long life or regular?



Thanks,

Jerry

 

[The patriot]

I'm running the Rotella stuff. It's reddish.

Local cummins shop told me to be sure I got all the green stuff out, and DO NOT add a DCA to this!

Eric

 

[Pit Bull]

The Dex Cool is great. No problem. If you don't get all of the green stuff out it just means that the Dex Cool won't be able to go the 5/150 like advertised, and you will have to change it like the green stuff. The Dex Cool is better for the water pump etc. and will last longer. Don't believe your neighbor, he is not up to speed on antifreeze.

 

[BK]

I read an article from the National radiator institute or something like that, plus I found their website with more articles. . great stuff. I think it's plain to see their interest in this issue.



They summarized the presentation given by GM at an industry meeting, plus a training video tape GM produced on the issue.



the whole thing about GM saying pull out the red and put back the green was a rumor started after GM started to look into the failures that occured while tracking how the red stuff was doing after they started using it as a factory fill.



What GM found was that in most of the failures, it was a fact that the owners (thinking they didnt have to touch their antifreeze for 150K miles) let the system run low on antifreeze. Refilled with water or just let it run low because they never checked it. Other failures were resigned to other engine or gasket failures.



the main reason for not mixing the green with the red, is that IF you looking for the longer life, the life of the coolant is only as long as the shorter life coolant. No bad reaction was found except if the system has a lot of white growth typical with the green stuff . The acid flush will remove any scaling seen or un seen. So there's better contact with the walls in the cooling system.



DC added in their report that the original red GM stuff didnt protect copper/soldered elements. Prestone and others replied that they have addressed that and their natural additive packages in the ETC protect ALL components found in any vehicle.



It seems from reading the institutes tech articles, they tend to lean toward a mixture no less than 50%. . no higher than 70%.

But 60% to 70% being prefered. Reason seems to be the old green stuff did a better job of controlling PH of the water during the life, there by controling electrolysis... which contributes to rust and pitting. So I gathered from my readings where 50% was fine for the green stuff, for better protection. . you should run about 60% of the red stuff.



The DCA is only needed for engines with piston sleeves. . non parent bore engines. Our beloved engines are parent bore designes and dont need the DCA, which addes to the deposits in the system.



Ford and DC have gone to ETC in some cars. But to "address" their concerns about the copper/ solder construction, they've gone to a hybridy coolant that has some manufactured additive elements from the green antifeeze... but mostly natural additives like the red we're talking about to make the factory fill an ETC.



sorry for my typical poor spelling... in a rush... gotta go.



Bob

 

[Chipstien]

Originally posted by Powder Extreme

Chipstein, where did you get a 180 degree stat? Can you give me part number and price? I tried my local Cummins dealer today, no luck, only a 190. Blue antifreeze huh? Cool!! Any advantages Cummins says? Like 20 more hp and 3 extra mpg? How much was the blue stuff? Long life or regular?



Thanks,

Jerry

Jerry, the part # for the T-Stat is 3954194 at the Cummins dealer. As for the anti-freeze, Cummins NW uses it so it can't be bad. I'm not sure what the change intervals are though. T-Stat was 16. 64 and the Anti-freeze was 6. 11 per gallons. (need 4 gallons). Good luck.

 

[Joe Mc]

Asked 2 Cummins Techs Red Vs. Green

Ran into 2 Cummins Techs getting coffee the other morning. Asked the question (about the Texaco Dex-Cool) they both said in our engins the red will do very well. No sleeves and not much aluminum, be sure to keep air out of the system and keep the coolant level topped off. Suggested checking the actual radiator level after an overnight cool down to esnure it was full.



In general they said the red (orange in my case) was as good as the green. They suggested changing it as the maunal referenced reguardless of what Texaco (or anyone else) claimed.



FINISHED

 

[BK]

Re: Asked 2 Cummins Techs Red Vs. Green

Originally posted by Joe Mc

They suggested changing it as the maunal referenced reguardless of what Texaco (or anyone else) claimed.

From my readings and research, I totally agree.



But "not much aluminum",,, our whole very expensive radiator is mostly aluminum with some plastic. But the ELC seem to be much better with the aluminum's then the old green. It just seems to be the copper/solder construction where some extra care is needed when using ELC: which keeping about 60% or slightly higher,,, keeping the coolant levels ups all is criticly too



One thing I discovered in my readings, and I'd like to share :

One big thing to watch out for, is that with the OEM's coolants and factory fill, color is not standardized between OEMs and other OEMS or aftermarket coolants. Blue from toyota has nothing in common with Blue from Fleetguard. Orange from DC is different than Orange aftermarket.