*Cough* Dang it chrysler wake up! *Loosing market*

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Ok so you have bailed on full size doors ... ... . Don't really want to show off the HD ram like some Rocks or something Built Tough However, if you miss the boat on this ITS YOUR OWN FAULT!.



Ford has officialy anounced in 2005 the explorer , rangers and possibly the f~150 will most likely have a V~6 Diesel as an option.



Hmmmmm Durango with 4bt ... . or even MB 6cyl V~Diesel (european 4. 3L) Hey in the SL600 it bangs out 320 hp ... . WHY NOT!



Sorry had to vent ... ... . Grrrrrrrrr

 

[TxDieselKid]

ttt because i agree with the WHOLE post!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I seriously doubt the head guys from Germany/Diamler Benz really comprehend the USA truck market - as far as I can see, the working and playing involvement of light and medium trucks in this country is unlike anything seen in Europe - probably due to the impact fuel prices have on recreational vehicle use in those countries, and the far greater restrictions seen in travel costs, parking, taxes and such.



They keep this up, they'll be wildly searching for another Lee Iacocca (sp?) In spite of their expressed abhorance of "buyer incentives", they are forced to follow the leads of GM and Ford - too bad they don't also see the light as far as a competitive vehicle is concerned... Best price incentive in the world doesn't make up for a sub-standard product...

 

[TORQUE THIS]

Hey, Chevy and Ford both advertise the diesel, why not Dodge



They don't have to... it sells itself.



Idea for a commercial:



Picture a Cummins 3500 Ram towing a 5th wheel to a campground, seeing the family set up the camper and accessories. The next scene is the father with a helmut and driving gloves walking out of the camper. The next scene is the dually doing 125 MPH around Daytona



Rams don't like rocks and they don't use maxi-pads

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Gawd if they only realized the following that theese trucks have!



Now picture having dakotas , durangos (MMmmmmm) and the like with Cummins all in common. Wrench days 'til the end of time ..... Sighns swing on the corner store "Gone Wrenchin' " .



No but really on the real side of the coin is the fact that diesel is the PROVEN power of the very backbone in which we live. It shows elegance (Mercedees , and Bentley's posh vehicles) Power (Silver spade earth moving shovel) reliability (Trucking industry logging billions of miles) as well as economical power means. America OBVIOUSLY is embracing the diesel concept as it has been in europe for eons. There is a reason D/C ..... Oh There is. Hey at worst roll out the idea to the consumer ... ...



NOT some stuffed shirt whos age puts him/her in a protected class of citizen! Or someone who is so far disconnected from scociety that they still think Bobbysocks and Knickers are all the rage!



10 Marks says that people will like it! He!! if you can still stuff a 360 cubic inch V~8 in a dakota that sucks down more fuel than Anna nichole at a tylonol factory I bet that diesel wil sway 75% of those who actually USE their dakotas for work.



40% of Moms who just handed in their Excursion will get one cause it has "Luxo" status being a diesel will get one. Because they killed 84 people in the last month alone due to them backing over busses and strip malls in their extreem SUV and loosing their children in the back somewhere last fall.



Sorry stll venting CMON join in!!

 

[HoleshotHolset]

The European diesels are nothing short of amazing. Upwards of 40% of all VW's in Europe are TDI's... .



They even make a 150hp version of my little 1. 9L (90hp) TDI that we can't get here in the states..... All allegedly because of "low sulfur" fuel..... which is a crock because European diesel averages about the same ppm of sulfur as U. S. diesel.....



Matt

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"They even make a 150hp version of my little 1. 9L "





YUP - and that single word - "little" - pretty well sums up European deployment of diesel engines - at least for the average buyer... Again, taxes, fuel prices and other related issues SERIOUSLY separate the US market from the European market, as far as large displacement diesels in trucks like ours are concerned - something about $6 a gallon for fuel, and at least half again the base price of a vehicle compared to the US seems to dampen their enthusiasm for stuff like RVing and such...





And to think, there are MANY in our society today who think "being European" is SOOoooo cool... All *I* can say, is go TO Europe if ya like what they "offer" don't bring the "European way" over HERE to add to our problems...

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Gary ... ... It's too late for that one.



I was talking to your average wilton soccer mom today who just bought a Mercedees benz MLK 500 (I can't stand it 80K+ for WHAT an SUV that will NEVER see a 11/32 of an inch of dirt in its life) and she actualy was looking for an SUV of course NOT as big as an excursion but the sise of an explorer / durango type with a diesel 'cause thats what she liked about the benz she traded in ..... THE DIESEL!!! The funny thing is she absolutely loves the durango! Good lord if the dorbell rings any louder Daimler I will need earplugs!.

 

[RonaldLarson]

Well, let's see here...

The half ton Dodge is currently the fourth best selling vehicle in the U. S. A. Boy, what a screw up?!

The '03 heavy dutys are the only U. S. built pickups with a true heavy duty rating from the E. P. A. Boy, what a screw up?!

The new Hemi is selling faster than Chrysler can build it, and all Dodge truck plants building the big trucks are on overtime. Another screw up?!

We seldom see any of the new trucks come back for any problems. The quality control has jumped fantastically.



The current stock price of Ford is around $8. 00 a share.



What's wrong with this picture?



Ron

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Ol Ron sez:



"What's wrong with this picture? "



Well, for starters, MOST of the seemingly impressive stats above STILL put Dodge SOLIDLY behind Ford and GM in direst head-to-head competing models - and it's only a fantasy to suggest DC is creating any serious concerns over in the Ford and GM sales offices...



The tired old argument that DC is selling their stuff "faster than they could built them" is FAR more a commentary on poor production ability than excellent sales - otherwise, why do GM and Ford have so many MORE of their trucks built, sold, and on the road than DC? That's not guesswork - that's ACTUAL production numbers as recently posted right here, on THIS board!



Maybe DC needs to ramp up their production a bit, and give their sales division something to work with?



The old "we sell them faster than we can build them" BS was the long-standing reason DC could never "bother" to build a true 4-door crewcab, didn't see the need, since after all, they were busy enough building and selling their other models, and couldn't be bothered...



Meanwhile Ford ALSO seems to be selling those 4-door crewcabs "as fast as they can biuld them" - frequently to former Dodge buyers...

 

[dhetrick]

If you look at my subject entry for "chrysler looking into diesels for their light vehicals" you will be able to click onto the detnews articals and the autoweek artical on MB delaying bringing diesels to the US market till 2005 when the sulfer content is to be lowered.



I've written cummins on the grate oportunity to put 6cyl B5. 9L 2002 diesel truck technology into their 4cyl B3. 9 to be used in the dakota, wrangler, liberty, grand cherokee. If they market it before 2005. They would have a foothold over MB diesels in the US market. If nothing else. It could be installed in the dakota and wrangler. Currently diesel less.

from the cummins construction sight

B3. 9-130 130hp 2500 333lb-ft 1500

B3. 9-116 116hp 2500 300lb-ft 1500

B3. 9-110 100hp vvv 293lb-ft vvv

B3. 9-100 hp 2200 298lb-ft vvv

B3. 9-80hp 2500 192lb-ft 1200

B3. 9-77hp 2200 192lb-ft 1200





When asking some of these questions at allpar.com. I am told the cummins 4cyl 3. 9 is 200lb heavier than the MB motor. They didn't specify which motor they were compairing it with. Maybe the 2. 7L CRD 5cyl that puts out 170hp 4000 and 295lb-ft 1800 for the liberty. MB C class car 2. 7L CDI turbo is 170hp 370lb-ft 1600-2800. Some nice torque numbers from a 2. 7L. I got the spects from the dealership sights UK.

 

[RonaldLarson]

Quote Dr. Zetsche

The emphasis at Chrysler is not market share, but profitability. Given the current international monetary situation, Dr. zetsche seems to have it right. Bill Ford hasn't figured that out, and the lack of production capacity at Chrysler is the only reason that they do not dominate the market.

Now if you crybabies want those four door monsters that can't make a U-Turn on a four lane street, go get one! I'll stick with the quality product.

Ron

 

[dhetrick]

Re: Quote Dr. Zetsche

Originally posted by ol ron

The emphasis at Chrysler is not market share, but profitability. Given the current international monetary situation, Dr. zetsche seems to have it right. Bill Ford hasn't figured that out, and the lack of production capacity at Chrysler is the only reason that they do not dominate the market.

Now if you crybabies want those four door monsters that can't make a U-Turn on a four lane street, go get one! I'll stick with the quality product.

Ron

I agree with you to a point. "The lack of production capacity at Chrysler is the only reason that they do not dominate the market. " Maybe true for trucks that has a good product range but, I will have to disagree. In my opinion- They do not dominate the market do to lack of product range. Take for instant the focus. They sell 2dr economy/sports hachback, 4dr hatch back, 4dr sedan, 4dr wagon. Neon= 4dr sedan and sports sedan. No economy car (40+mpg). No wagon. I know some people say the PT cruiser is the wagon. But some people do not like fat fender look as much as I do. So they needed to make the neon and stratus/sebring a wagon. They should have made a neon 2dr hatch back and use the 1. 6 DCX / BMW motor for an economy car. At least they made the SRT-4. The next step would be making it AWD.

If Chrysler brings diesels to their line up. At least economy would be a market they would scratch at. If later they are bold enough. Have a turbo diesel hybrid that will provide fun performance and good fuel milage. In my opion. All FWD should have an option to be a hybrid awd. For the people who want to have the electric option.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Re: Quote Dr. Zetsche

Originally posted by ol ron

I'll stick with the quality product.

As long as their engineering stops interfering .



But Ron I am cheering for SMALLER Suv's with diesels.

 

[dhetrick]

Personally with the neon. I'd like to see it:

2dr hatch back 1. 6L 5sp opt 2. 0L HO.

2DR coupe srt-4 2. 4 turbo and light weight 2. 0L HO R/T, MB 2. 2L TDI.

4dr sedan MB 1. 7L CRD/80hp electric, MB 2. 2L CRD, 2. 0L

4dr wagon MB 1. 7L CRD/hybrid, MB 2. 2L CRD, 2. 0L/hybrid



For the dakota/ M80 /Wrangler/ liberty I wouldn't mind seeing 3. 7L, MB 2. 7L crd and tdi, dakota only 4. 7L. liberty 2. 2L CRD /Hybrid



grand chrokee & darango MB 3. 2 crd/hybrid and tdi , 4. 7L, 5. 7L.



The more I think of the cummins 3. 9L. It's probably best to keep it for off road equipment. We will just have to wait till 2005. When the fuel cleans up.

 

[tk064]

The weight of a 4Bt is a big factor in the smaller vehicles. The 4bt CJ's and scouts I have seen do really well off-road at slow speeds, but the weight really changes the higher speed handling of the vehicle on the road.



I don't know if the computer controlled 3. 9 control vibration enough for them to be "acceptable" to the upscale market in some of these vehicle. A 6 with the lesser vibration would probably be a better choice.



Tim

 

[swampfox]

Light Truck Diesels

When looking at a diesel engine as an option the manufacturer has to sell enough of them to justify the engineering, procurement and Warrenty repair (parts warehousing)cost. Would you pay $4,000 to $5,000 extra for a 130 hp diesel in a Dodge Dakota... ... When you can get a V8 hemi for less... . not to mention the Dakota isn't built to haul the heavy loads that is a diesel's forte. In Europe Fuel costs are what makes Diesels so popular. The future for light vehicles is the hybrid gas/diesel-electric. In Hybrids whichever engine(diesel or gas) is the least polluting will prevail. Diesels and hybrids will prevail when fuel costs get over $4. 00 a gallon and probably not much before.

 

[jwilliams3]

Forget the 4bt going into a small vehicle.

The Engine weighs about 700+ pounds.



--Justin

 

[JConley]

Swamp... YES. I would have paid an extra 4 grand for a diesel had it been an option when we bought our Durango. We would have saved that much since we traded it off for a PSD Excursion. That Durango was a gutless gas guzzler.



We would have kept the Durango if it had a diesel, or I might have traded in my ram for another ram with 4 FULL size doors. Since neither exist, I went and got both at Ford.

 

[dhetrick]

Bob writes at allpar.com that the frito-lay trucks use the 3. 9



3. 9 in frito lay trucks



At allpar.com go to forums, then click on news and rumors, then click on diesels for chrysler USA Page2 I tryed to get a link but the link was too long.