Coupling a fifth wheel with short bed lifted 1500

[AClayton]

Nothing is impossible! But HB pointed out the obvious limitations of that set of tires for towing a heavy 5th wheel. Yes, that tire may have a rating that meets or even exceed the stock size tire but the additional mass between the rim and contact of the road surface is where stability derives from. A taller tire will NEED that added cushion of weight rating when combining them to the towing prowess of a stock size tire. And that's not even factoring the additional rotating mass that the brakes have to overcome while stopping unloaded... . now add a 14k toyhauler with a 3500lb pin weight. A simple way of looking at it is this: As an example a truck with a 3. 55 axle ratio is rated by Dodge to tow 16k. But a truck boasting 4. 10's is rated to tow much more. Well?..... tire size affects final drive ratio right?

I agree though... Harvey can be a little harsh at times and I have had issues before with him just as many others have had. But he is right many more times than he is wrong and his experience precedes him..... and I do my best to respect that. The guy cares about your safety... . there are way too many people that really don't care anymore and he does! The OP asked for advice and he got it..... simply put! I asked the very same basic question 3 yrs ago and he gave the same very advice..... and about as harsh as he did with this OP! I didn't listen and bought my RV anyway - a 40 ft. toyhauler. I spent the next several weekends upgrading my truck to pull the RV and 'thought' the truck was much better suited to do the job..... which it was. But the inherent weaknesses soon show their ugly heads as time passes! Each and every one of HB's examples of my truck not being sufficient enough showed up in my future as I continued to use and tow my rig.

Take this post for FWIW..... but it sort of reminded me of being a hard-headed teenager with a know it all attitude and sometime into your early 20's you eventually realize that ... . Damn..... that old man of mine was right after all!

 

[HBarlow]

Gary,

Fools like edelheit are to be ignored. I put him on my ignore list a couple of years ago after he demonstrated his ignorance. I don't see what he posts. It is certainly no loss to avoid his dumb rants.

 

[AEdelheit]

Hahaha man you guys are funny. If it was my personal setup I'd use a 3500 dually, but it's not. To the OP, apparently you should lower your truck to the ground and put the smallest tires possible, obviously the only way to tow anything bigger then a fishing boat. Games, you say I don't have the gonads to tell Barlow my thoughts to his face then call me a rude ignorant boy because I tell people what I think about then weather it's behind a keyboard or in person?? Ya that's mature man, good job there!!!

 

[d6c]

The weight rating system for tires... . is pretty simple... . casing width... rim size... ply rating... and inflation pressure... equals weight carrying capacity. No respect is given for actual materials used. Stiff sidewalls rule when you are maxed out for stability. Talk to a truck tire shop... they probably deal with little rigs also... and know what are better choices than others.
Guys are on the road everywhere with lift kits and big tires towing huge toy haulers... . If it ever hits the fan for them they have multiple failure points by there own choices... and it usually is not just them that get hurt. or worse.

 

[GAmes]

Games, you say I don't have the gonads to tell Barlow my thoughts to his face then call me a rude ignorant boy because I tell people what I think about then weather it's behind a keyboard or in person?? Ya that's mature man, good job there!!!

Oh my goodness!!! That post was for edification. I can only infer why you would jump to the conclusion that it was aimed at you. The weather here in central Texas is great. How is the weather there in Santa Rosa?



Oh, if you want to address me it is GAmes, first initial, last name.

 

[Mark31]

It wouldn't hurt here to remember who Harvey Barlow is/was. As a submariner, I sure he was drilled, trained, taught, indoctrinated, to do a job and be a part of a team in a most unforgiving environment. "Down there", rules are not broken twice. If he offends you, deal with it and move on. For me, my hat if off to him as I thank him for his service to our country. Mark

 

[AEdelheit]

Well MR. GAmes (no offense was meant by not capitalizing the G before ) when you quote what I say and then respond to it I assume it was about me, sorry I somehow got that wrong. The weather is interesting over here thanks for asking, its been a very cold dry winter, well for our area. The nights have been into the 20's but we are starting to see some high 60's in the afternoon which is bad for grapes. There will be early bud break and frost so work will be very very busy!!

Mark31: I do appreciate everyone who has served, though I don't feel that gives anyone the right to be a such a prick, I admit Harvey is very knowledgeable about towing RV's in his comfort zone, anything outside of that is another story. I have read alot the the crap he posts about engine or mechanical stuff and its terribly missleading, Im not supprised he ignores me, people like him dont like being questioned no matter how wrong he is. Now did you have anything useful to contribute to the OP's question???

To the OP: As I said before you can get a 37" tire that can handle it, though I do agree a dually is much more suitable for that big of a trailer

Hope yall have a nice relaxing evening in the Members Republic of Harvey

 

[NIsaacs]

To the OP: As I said before you can get a 37" tire that can handle it

I agree, a 37" tire does not automaticaly mean junk. The tire construction, weight rating, width and rim diameter all come into play. Big trucks run super singles. I have a set of 10 ply bias, ML35x14x17. 5 Ground Hawgs on the front of my Bobcat that are rated 6,960 lbs @ 5 mph and 4,800 lbs @ 55 mph, each. The OP has a Mega Cab so that helps, longer the tow rig the better.

Nick

 

[Mark31]

Now did you have anything useful to contribute to the OP's question??? Ok, with your kind permission, Mr AEdelheit, I believe I will add a one-sentence observation for consideration: If I were considering pulling such a load, I don't think I would like to raise the overall gearing with taller tires. Mark

 

[scottford]

OK guys. Obviously there is some "history" between some guys in this forum. It was not my intention to **** people off. My post started with a typo and proceeded down hill from there. I believe some of it was my fault because of the limited info I provided. I have more time today so here is all the accurate info (although for some I do not think it will matter).
My Truck: 2011 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT Mega Cab 4X4, Big Horn, 6. 7 Liter Cummins Turbo Diesel, 6 speed auto w/ Electric Shift-on-the-fly Transfer Case, 3. 73 rear axle ratio. 6" Pro-Comp lift w/ rear air bags, 37x12. 50R20 Nitto Trail Grapplers, load range E with a maximum load rating of 3750, 20 x 9 Gear Alloy Black Jack, Mini-Max Tuner w/ coolant, Trans, Pyro, and Boost. My GVWR is 9600, GCWR is 20K.
Proposed trailer: 2012 Fuzion 322, overall length 35'2, Height 13'1, dry weight 11720, carrying capacity 4485, loaded weight 16205, tire size ST235/80R16E, hitch weight 2895.
Proposed 5th wheel hitch: Husky 10 Composite Glider up to 26,000 lbs. with a 2” kingpin.

 

[farmboy]

OK guys. Obviously there is some "history" between some guys in this forum. It was not my intention to **** people off. My post started with a typo and proceeded down hill from there. I believe some of it was my fault because of the limited info I provided. I have more time today so here is all the accurate info (although for some I do not think it will matter).
My Truck: 2011 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT Mega Cab 4X4, Big Horn, 6. 7 Liter Cummins Turbo Diesel, 6 speed auto w/ Electric Shift-on-the-fly Transfer Case, 3. 73 rear axle ratio. 6" Pro-Comp lift w/ rear air bags, 37x12. 50R20 Nitto Trail Grapplers, load range E with a maximum load rating of 3750, 20 x 9 Gear Alloy Black Jack, Mini-Max Tuner w/ coolant, Trans, Pyro, and Boost. My GVWR is 9600, GCWR is 20K.
Proposed trailer: 2012 Fuzion 322, overall length 35'2, Height 13'1, dry weight 11720, carrying capacity 4485, loaded weight 16205, tire size ST235/80R16E, hitch weight 2895.
Proposed 5th wheel hitch: Husky 10 Composite Glider up to 26,000 lbs. with a 2” kingpin.

Just remember one thing I don't think anyone else mentioned is what will be the height of the 5er if you have to lift it more to make it level while hooked up. You are already at 13'1" and you need to stay under 13'6". Just a thought on top of all the other stuff. Also remember your GCVW.

 

[Bob4x4]

To start all mega cabs are heavy duty so your 1500vs2500 should not have been a big thing. You are way overgeared,I would say 4. 56's would be more in- line. Pin weight will be an issue imho

 

[HBarlow]

If is fairly common here on TDR to see a member post questions asking for comments on a huge travel trailer he has already decided to buy and then he is offended and resentful when some/many of us tell him it is too much trailer for his truck. We've seen it many times and will see it again.

A 16,000 lb. fifthwheel usually exceeds the factory GCWR of and is too heavy for an ordinary Ram dually except for the new trucks rated for 30,000 lbs. Gross Combined Weight. As I said in my first post, your truck is about half the truck needed for the trailer you plan to buy and you have made a Ram 2500 even less capable with a six inch lift and huge tires.

The kingpin weight will also exceed your rear axle and tire carrying capacity. A good rule of thumb for calculating pin weight for fifthwheel or gooseneck trailers is 20% to 22% of loaded weight depending on factors such as axle spacing and generator. That trailer will have approximately 3200 to 3500 lbs. of kingpin weight. Dry weight figures are useless. They are not even accurate for a brand new trailer when it leaves the factory empty and dry because the number does not include accessories. Once you, your wife, and kids load it up with fuel, water, lpg, tools, trailer and outdoor accessories, off road toys, food, clothing, and more as all of us do it will weight 16,000 lbs. Pretending it will be a lot lighter is only wishful thinking.

Many of us have towed trailers heavier than that with a Ram dually but that does not change the fact that such trailers overload the truck and make towing more risky. Some of us have towed large, heavy trailers hundreds of thousands of miles in all weather and are fully aware of the risks and have experience handling the risks. The fact that we have done it with duallies does not mean it was 100% safe or that we recommend it. I surely recommend against it for a lifted Ram 2500 with oversized tires.

If you don't like our advice its no problem. We don't care whether you follow or advice and you are under no obligation to do so. You asked for advice and you received it.

 

[HBarlow]

Just remember one thing I don't think anyone else mentioned is what will be the height of the 5er if you have to lift it more to make it level while hooked up. You are already at 13'1" and you need to stay under 13'6". Just a thought on top of all the other stuff. Also remember your GCVW.

That is an excellent point that I didn't consider. Raising the trailer over its design height will put the owner at greater risk of hitting an overpass on secondary highways and roads and will also make it less stable.

My HitchHiker with two roof air conditioners is 13' 2" at the top of the bedroom ac unit. I have had to pull it under a couple of old railroad bridges over old city streets or secondary highways with a 13' 6" height. My pucker factor was very high until I cleared the overpass. An additional six inches of trailer height would have peeled the bedroom ac unit off and torn out half the roof as it departed.

 

[surfbeetle]

Considering you have a shortbed, if given the choice of a sliding hitch versus an extended pin box, I would go with the hitch. An extended pinbox will put more leverage on the frame of the fifth wheel than it was designed for. Also something to think about, in my state (CA) they are starting to crack down on people with very long fifth wheels who don't have the proper driver's license to pull the weight. I believe over 15k is the magic number. A commercial or non commercial Class A license may be required depending on how your state regulates it.

 

[HDR]

I used a pullrite 18k sliding hitch to tow my 14k 32' 5th wheel and love it. Very heavy duty and well.

 

[HDR]

 

[GAmes]

Also something to think about, in my state (CA) they are starting to crack down on people with very long fifth wheels who don't have the proper driver's license to pull the weight. I believe over 15k is the magic number. A commercial or non commercial Class A license may be required depending on how your state regulates it.

Good point. That combo here in TX would require a class A license also, except our laws are in line with CDL weights. Either a Class A CDL or Class A non-commercial is required if the trailer is over 10,000 GVWR and the GVWR of the tow vehicle and GVWR of the trailer (GCWR) exceeds 26,000 pounds.

 

[NIsaacs]

Many of us have towed trailers heavier than that with a Ram dually but that does not change the fact that such trailers overload the truck and make towing more risky. Some of us have towed large, heavy trailers hundreds of thousands of miles in all weather and are fully aware of the risks and have experience handling the risks. The fact that we have done it with duallies does not mean it was 100% safe or that we recommend it. I surely recommend against it for a lifted Ram 2500 with oversized tires.



If you don't like our advice its no problem. We don't care whether you follow or advice and you are under no obligation to do so. You asked for advice and you received it.

This is the best advice yet, especially this: "are fully aware of the risks and have experience handling the risks".



I haul heavy quite regular but thats just me. I drive conservetive, am not reckless and I have good equipment. I was raised on a ranch with farm tractors. They tow everything on the ranch with two brakes, the front axle don't use them, the towed equipment don't have brakes. If you turn over with a tractor you will not survive so you learn caution, I was on my own at the ripe old age of 8. At 14 years old my first tow truck was a 1941 Chevy 1/2 ton with a small flat bed, the trailer was a single axle flatbed with no brakes. I hauled hay with that combo for years, very carefully. Keep in mind this was all in the country with you as the only one at risk. Just pointing out Harvey's quote and why it is so important. Experience teaches risk and risk teaches experience.



Nick

 

[HBarlow]

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HDR,

Your photos clearly display the fact that the rear suspension of your Ram 2500 is significantly overloaded with a deep sag and make me wonder if weight transfer has taken needed weight off the front steer tires.

Also looks like you have inadequate clearance between the front bedroom overhang of the fifthwheel and the truck bed.

Not a rig I would drive any farther than around the block.