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This is from Relentless Diesel's website,I thought it might be help shed some light on the cp3 mods.

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It's been a long time since I wrote one of these, but here goes.



The Bosch CP3 High pressure pump is what comes on all 2003 and newer Dodge Cummins Trucks. It is also found on Chevy Duramaxes too and although the orientation of the rail supply fittings and fuel lines are different the capabilities and functions are the same.



The biggest reason I wanted to write this article was to dispel some myths that are developing around this little pump.



First off, let's discuss its theory of operation. Fuel from the fuel tank is drawn out and sent to the CP3 by some variety of lift pump. Pressure is normally 6-10 psi in a stock truck. The CP3's job is to deliver highly pressurized fuel to the fuel rail to which the injectors are connected. The CP3 has no function in how or when or for how long the injectors squirt fuel into the combustion chamber. It's sole job is to deliver fuel.



There is an electromechanical device on the CP3 that the ECM uses to limit the fuel volume that the CP3 delivers. Notice that I said volume and NOT pressure.



I've enclosed a schematic of the internal flow diagram of the CP3 to help some of you visualize what's going on.



#ad




Basically fuel enters the fuel inlet and immediately goes through a 0. 160" orifice before entering the internal gear pump. Pressure increases to 75 psi at the gear pump and is forced through a 0. 110" orifice on its way to the internal pressure regulator.



If the gear pump is flowing more fuel than required by the plungers and barrels then the flow is simply recirculated back into the inlet of the gear pump. It is a very simple system.



The lubrication flow is simply a tiny orifice that lets a small amount of fresh fuel enter the bearing housing of the CP3. The CP3 uses this fuel to cool the bearings and lubricate the internal moving components. This bearing housing is ported directly to the fuel return fitting so this fuel which is now hot from the bearings easily moves back to the tank to be cooled.



Now follow the regulated pressure down toward the flow limiting valve. The flow limiting valve is controlled by the ECM. It uses a variable pulse width 12 volt signal to charge an electromagnet. There is a small valve that is spring loaded to the open position inside this flow limiting valve. The electromagnet pulls the valve into the closed position to restrict fuel flow. The ecm constantly regulates this valve to achieve its desired fuel rail pressures.



If Rail pressures are lower than the computer desires, it simply opens the valve to let more fuel into the plungers and the pressure rises quickly. The same thing happens if the rail pressure is too high. The computer will quickly restrict the fuel flowing into the plungers and rail pressure will quickly fall to the desired level.



At the fully closed position, no fuel is allowed into the plungers at all. At the fully open position, the orifice size of the valve is similar to an 0. 080" hole.



This is by far the smallest restriction inside the CP3.



The fuel then leaves the flow limiting valve and heads towards one of three plungers. The pressure between the flow limit valve and the plunger intake varies widely. If the flow limit valve is closed then there is a vacuum created because the plungers can't stop or slow down. They continue to pump away wildly whether fuel is available or not.



On the other hand, when the computer needs more rail pressure and the flow limit valve is wide open there can be up to 75 psi (full regulated internal pressure) feeding the plungers.



The plungers are too simple to discuss extensively. They simply follow a camshaft and each plunger intakes fuel through a check valve on its intake stroke and pushes fuel through another check valve on its pressure stroke. Each plunger goes through one pumping stroke for each revolution of the CP3.



Now that we've got the basics out of the way we can get on to the more exciting topic of high performance.



It didn't take long for the aftermarket electronic wizards out there to fire the injectors for a longer duration to get more fuel into the engine. It became pretty common place to plug in a single electronic device and gain 180 rear wheel HP. This was exciting for about a week and then the greed started kicking in and everybody wanted MORE.



What we noticed was that when we increased the duration of the injectors passed a certain point the rail pressure would fall off. Our scanners would show that the flow limiting valve was completely open and yet the rail pressure wouldn't increase.



It quickly became apparent that the CP3 had its limit of fuel flow and if you asked for more than it could deliver, the rail pressures fell off. When rail pressures fell, horsepower drops, exhaust temperatures skyrocket and black smoke increases dramatically.



Once a need for a solution developed that's when the vultures of this industry stepped in because they smelled the opportunity for money to be made.



Companies offered tons of useless solutions. Here buy my 120 psi electric lift pump. Pressure isn't the solution you need more volume. No, volume isn't the solution, pressure is. Buy my 95 GPH pump. No 95 isn't enough you need my 150 GPH or it won't work. When that failed then it was you need bigger fuel lines. You need a 3/8" pickup tube in the tank. You need 1/2" lines. You need to get rid of those banjo bolts. The stock fuel filter is not large enough.



The funniest part is those problems are still being talked about even today on internet forums.



To my knowledge, one of my customer's trucks is the fastest commonrail. He's been a 12. 23 e. t. @ 110 MPH @ 7020 lbs. in two different states over a year ago. That truck had a 70 GPH pump that only supplied 4 psi of fuel pressure to his CP3.



That's why I've decided to release some of this info that we've had for over a year now. I'm tired of people making money off unsuspecting, uneducated customers.



Look for a minute at the flowchart above. The biggest restriction is the flow limiting valve itself. It is an 0. 080" orifice.



We dismantled a few and began modifying them. We are able to open that orifice to over . 140" now. That will flow three times what the stock one did. We've even went so far as to dyno test this on a 550HP test truck. The truck gained 5. 8 HP. Barely enough to notice at these levels.



The next orifice is the holes in the gear pump itself. We opened them up as large as the passageways that connected them. No gain on the dyno.



That lead us to believe the plungers themselves were the restriction in the pump. We either had to design bigger plungers or speed up the pump to get more fuel from the existing ones.



Seeing as there are only one or two machines in the world built FOR Bosch to machine plungers to the tolerances required by bosch for reliability and longevity and Bosch oversees the sell of all of them and not to mention the price tag of over $300,000. We decided to go the speed route and leave the stock sized plungers in place.



The most interesting thing was after we got the original prototype built and installed on an otherwise stock CP3 spinning 30% faster, there was NO gain in power or fuel flow.



We then installed our modified flow limiting valve to increase the . 080" orifice to . 140" and the truck gained almost 50 HP. Then we installed our modified gear pump and the truck gained another 36 HP.



It was a long road to finding gains in the CP3 but well worth the effort.



Now I look out at my competition that just started marketing CP3 mods a month ago and they are selling CP3 tweaks in multiple stages. And when customers don't see gains they tell them to buy a different lift pump that will provide 40 psi to the CP3.



I would like to advise this to all interested. Find out exactly what you are buying before you do.



I've heard reports that modified gear pumps and flow limiting valves are going for $1100 from some companies. We picked up only 6HP with that combination.



We also picked up 86 rear wheel PEAK HP with 13-15 psi of fuel pressure. If the pump mods you are buying aren't hitting those numbers. You are being scammed. My modified gear pumps are $192 no core charge. My modified flow limiting valves are $119 + $120 core charge.



These pieces are crucial to making a faster spinning CP3 or a CP3 with larger plungers work correctly, but it doesn't do anything buy itself.



Educate yourself before wasting money.



I hope this has helped some of you understand the mystery lurking inside the CP3's.



Best of luck to you.







The drawings and graphs can be found at www.relentlessdiesel.com in technical section.
 
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since you are now a salesman for relentless, can you please tell me the myths you have heard on this forum. and as for power----relentless=86hp stage 1 =100+hp---there is a lot of difference there, maybe thats why the fuel pressure needed to be turned up to 40 psi. and your pump is it direct fit? does it look like a stock pump?==the answer is no you have to put on a different timing cover, then put on your pump that is over speeding itself to make up for the high cost of doing it right!!!! and will ultimatly fail your pump because of it. dont try to bash our pumps on the net in a nice way without having real evidence to back it up. not try ing to bash yours but making a mute point. :eek: :-laf :-laf :-laf
 
Well I hate to see vendor/product bashing or pizzing contests on any thread, but I do understand some point-couterpoint responses. I do appreciate the information on the Relentless CP3 modifications and logic behind it. Not all vendors are willing to devulge that level of information and it does at least help in understanding the CP3 in general.



Seems probably too early to tell who's CP3 modifications are viable long term. Maybe I can now ask some reasonable questions about the other modded CP3s starting to hit the market.
 
I agree. For me, this bashing just serves to postpone my purchase - and I will purchase. I do appreciate the technical article from Relentless Diesel, but we all know there are "cut throats" out there waiting to suck up our money, so let's just stick to the design principal. I would also appreciate a similar technical overview from all competitors with more of a constructive explanation on why they believe their approach to be the best. I understand the proprietary nature of these designs, but there are ways around that by plugging a black box into the schematic where need be. Even some conceptual drawings based on competing methods would be greatly appreciated. I need a littler more than dyno charts and 1/4mile claims to make an informed decision modded CP3’s. Thanks, Bill
 
RCCox said:
This is from Relentless Diesel's website,I thought it might be help shed some light on the cp3 mods.

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To my knowledge, one of my customer's trucks is the fastest commonrail. He's been a 12. 23 e. t. @ 110 MPH @ 7020 lbs. in two different states over a year ago. That truck had a 70 GPH pump that only supplied 4 psi of fuel pressure to his CP3.



We also picked up 86 rear wheel PEAK HP with 13-15 psi of fuel pressure. If the pump mods you are buying aren't hitting those numbers. You are being scammed. My modified gear pumps are $192 no core charge. My modified flow limiting valves are $119 + $120 core charge.

I do agree that I do not want to get into which Cp3 is better. I do think the customer having many choices is AWSOME, and great for advancement of technology.



Though I do have a counter-point:

1) My fuel pump did not maintain 10psi, that is my fault, not the CP3's - to say that I was scammed because I did not give my Cp3 the proper 13-15psi as Relentless did is simply wrong.



Per Relentless Diesel's website said:
For those of you running a TST and EZ stack only. Your peak HP is on level 7 of the TST with the EZ on its highest setting. If you add the Hyper-Drive with nothing else, you will only see a 40 HP gain when you turn the TST up to level 9. To utilize the rest of the horsepower available you will have to add either a set of larger injectors or another performance box. ,



I think that is an important fact. One that I agree with.



So much so that I will have FLUX injectors this weekend...

There goes that tax return :-laf :-laf



PS - let me note that an 8500lb 3rd gen dually truck ran 12. 5 that I know of, I only wish dodge would have built that truck 1500lbs lighter ;)
 
I don't see where this is bashing. He stated he took it off of the Relentless web-site to inform us. I'm glad we have more choices. Makes for better competition. And give us another choice when it comes to spending money.



For a few hundered dollars to gain 40hp great. Better the a grand of more of a 100hp. I already have injectors, TST & EZ. If I can run my TST on 9 to take advantage of the extra power, that's great. It's all I've wanted to do this entire time. For me I don't see a need to do some stage 2 wicked pump. Just me. But if I can pick up another 40hp for a few benjies. Then that's going to sound more interesting to me.



I'm glad this was posted. Thanks.
 
After reading that, it would seem that an upgraded cp-3 will not make that much more power with out a larger fuel rail. Sounds like there is not enough fuel volume in there.



It's like trying to run an impact wrench off a 2 gallon compressor. It will drain that tank fast, so it better have one hell of a motor and compressor pump to get those tanks up to pressure again. That's why it works better to use a 30+ tank, it has plenty of reserve air.



I think this situation is very similar to what we are trying to do with our trucks. I don't think you will see a big gain untill there is a bigger fuel rail to match the HO pumps.
 
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Diesel Power,

First I am not a salesmen for anyone. I did not write the article. I was showing the forum what the pump I run consist of and how its designer came up with it. I do not bash different brands on these forums. I am curious as to how some products work,if thats bashing or myth starting I apologize. But I will defend my purchase,you say my pump being overspeed hurts reliability?What does all that rail pressure do for your reliability,help it?I have the utmost respect for the guys who actually designed the pump you are marketing,I have never met them or bought from them but I good things about all of them. So if you feel something has been said in error you can direct your inquiries to www.relentlessdiesel.com
 
no hard feelings, :D it sure sounded like you were targeting the few who use 40psi to suppliy fuel the cp3!!! as far as fuel pressure goes there is NO WAY you are pushing in more fuel through the rail without increasing pressure in the rail. via cp3 mods, all cp3 mods on the market, in one way or the other ARE increasing constant rail pressure to deliver more fuel. relentless should have told you that before they sold it to you :rolleyes: :-laf
 
I have the prototype,I watched it go the truck,I also seen the scanner read rail pressure before and after the mod,the results,it was exactly the same. The trucks do not have pressure problems,they volume problems,which is why I picked up 86 peak hp, I increased the volume. I notice in your sig. you have a modded cp3?What is your hp #. I have yet to see a actual hp number from you. You have a problem with a article written by someone else that I posted for the info not to bash anyone. Now it seems you want to take a poor attitude with me,what gives?As for as me needing to be told something before I buy it,I am confident I am on the right track.
 
RCCox said:
I have the prototype,I watched it go the truck,I also seen the scanner read rail pressure before and after the mod,the results,it was exactly the same. The trucks do not have pressure problems,they volume problems,which is why I picked up 86 peak hp, I increased the volume. I notice in your sig. you have a modded cp3?What is your hp #. I have yet to see a actual hp number from you. You have a problem with a article written by someone else that I posted for the info not to bash anyone. Now it seems you want to take a poor attitude with me,what gives?As for as me needing to be told something before I buy it,I am confident I am on the right track.



no attitude here man, everything is cool. im trying to help you better understand the difference, your edge ez is why the rail pressure did not change, it fools the ecm----thats why you did not see a difference, once again relentless should have told you or knew that was going to happen, my numbers will be released when we are finished with everything going on---it will be soon enough. thanks :-laf
 
Wow,that never dawned on me,I guess its inconcieveable to take the ez off to check rail pressure,please give me more credit than that. For the sake of everyone else please lets drop this subject and when you put up a real hp number lets talk again.
 
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Hp

Horse power talks and well you know the rest... I'd like to see some numbers from you guys (Diesel Power and Floor It). Chris at Relentless took the time to explain the modifications that he makes to the CP3, and RC has given us the HP and TQ numbers on his truck so we know what they can do. Can you guys give TDR users an explanation of the modifications you make and some HP numbers to back it up? That way everyone can make an honest comparison before they purchase.
 
What would happen if the pressure was increased on the internal regulator? Maybe this is why I keep hearing about 40 PSI inlet pressure. To help the gear pump keep up and help keep a higher pressure at the plungers. I don't see how this would raise HP but it would possibly help to stop the rail from draining. :confused:
 
RPElliott said:
Horse power talks and well you know the rest... I'd like to see some numbers from you guys (Diesel Power and Floor It). Chris at Relentless took the time to explain the modifications that he makes to the CP3, and RC has given us the HP and TQ numbers on his truck so we know what they can do. Can you guys give TDR users an explanation of the modifications you make and some HP numbers to back it up? That way everyone can make an honest comparison before they purchase.



tomygun allready showed TDR a 117hp increase, others will follow :D
 
AEzzo said:
What would happen if the pressure was increased on the internal regulator? Maybe this is why I keep hearing about 40 PSI inlet pressure. To help the gear pump keep up and help keep a higher pressure at the plungers. I don't see how this would raise HP but it would possibly help to stop the rail from draining. :confused:



your getting warm!!!! :-laf :-laf
 
You must be doing somthing to the flow limiting valve so it flows more at a given point. This would allow the higher rail pressure. Your helping to pack more fuel in sooner.
 
Frustrated!

Well... Yep, I'm new here. This thread has taught me a few things... 1) I think I'll keep my '05 stock and enjoy it for its refined state. 2) I'll pick me up another 94-97 12v to play with. Maybe I'm old fashioned? Maybe I'm just dumb? I'd rather build power the old fashioned way, tinkering with mechanical things... . just seems like cheating pluggin' in a box and presto... . ~150hp! Don't get me wrong, the technology is incredible! IMHO, plugging in a box is similiar to a ricer on Nitrous. I'm really not trying to offend you guys. I realize that there is much more to it on the 3rd Gens to really make the hp.
 
I think this article was very informative an not meant to bash anyone I wish more companies would go into detail about the products they sell an what they do an not try an keep things secret after all it is our trucks there going on. I have spoken with Chris at Relentless a few times an actually been by his shop he's a super nice guy who doesn't mind taking time out of his day to talk an answer questions although I have never made a purchase from him. I have seen threads where talk down his twin setup an now this but bottom line his trucks make the power an have the dyno an time slips to prove it don't see how anyone could argue with that all from a little diesel shop in Willis Texas. For the record im not a salesman or in anyway connected to Relentless just another diesel nut putting in his . 02 :-laf
 
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