CP4.2

[dieselshadow]

OptiLube is good stuff. Stanadyne is my number one choice followed closely by OptiLube. However, I haven’t used anything in my ‘18. The wrong additive can be worse than no additive. Your warranty doesn’t allow you to modify the fuel.

 

[cerberusiam]

Aside from opinion that is really missing the point, the only useful info on alcohol in diesel additives is a discussion of chemical properties. Every article I see and find is solely centered around alcohol as a fuel or the assumption straight alcohol is somehow bypassing its natural tendencies to combine with anything and everything it can. It just doesn't happen that way.

Frankly, if you have so much water in the fuel you would NEED alcohol you have bigger issues. If you have water going past the WS, there are bigger issues. The addition or subtraction of a 10% solution of IPA in a tank of fuel will have no measurable effect, it just is not a high enough concentration of alcohol to do good or harm.

There is a high probability a lot worse stuff is coming out the diesel pumps at many stations than a 10% IPA in a quart mixed in fuel tank adds. In the big picture it just doesn't figure.

Your warranty doesn’t allow you to modify the fuel.

On the contrary, requirements for warranty pretty REQUIRE the use of additives. Way better off with an additive package than not.

 

[Wiredawg]

This discussion is kinda going in a circle... the reason I believe after some education in this thread that EXTENDED storage of diesel fuel (250 gallons for me) could create water AND algae problems. My setup has TWO fuel filtering systems... one feeding fuel to the engine AND one that cycles the fuel through a separate WIF/filter setup 4 hours per day with a 34GPH pump.

I don't run SeaFoam in my truck or other diesel operated machines... just the generator and just for treating extended storage. And I trust my BIL on this as well.

Cheers, Ron

 

[sag2]

From the 2019 Ram HD Diesel Owners Manual.

In addition, commercially available fuel additives are
not necessary for the proper operation of your Cummins
diesel engine.

 

[cerberusiam]

I don't run SeaFoam in my truck or other diesel operated machines... just the generator and just for treating extended storage.

Have you ever run the genset? Does it run? Has it died, blown up , imploded, or ANYTHING out of the ordinary from running on SeaFoam treated fuel?

The statement is more than a bit contradictory and confusing. If you would NEVER run SeaFoam in any diesel engine why would you use it a genset that would be a critical when needed?

From the 2019 Ram HD Diesel Owners Manual.

In addition, commercially available fuel additives are
not necessary for the proper operation of your Cummins
diesel engine.

Now post the adopted fuel spec, the REAL test for fuel system warranty for FCA, Bosch, and Cummins, reconcile that against this.

Pretty much a given the FIRST thing that is going to happen for warranty is fuel test and if it doesn't pass those flowery words about not needing additives mean NOTHING.

 

[AH64ID]

If you have water going past the WS, there are bigger issues.

I agree, unless you're using an additive with alcohol. Alcohol makes it easier for water to get past. That's the big reason not to run it.

Assuming no water the effects of IPA are minimal on #2 and combustion.

This discussion is kinda going in a circle... the reason I believe after some education in this thread that EXTENDED storage of diesel fuel (250 gallons for me) could create water AND algae problems. My setup has TWO fuel filtering systems... one feeding fuel to the engine AND one that cycles the fuel through a separate WIF/filter setup 4 hours per day with a 34GPH pump.

I don't run SeaFoam in my truck or other diesel operated machines... just the generator and just for treating extended storage. And I trust my BIL on this as well.

Cheers, Ron

That's the thing with alcohol, it reduces the effectiveness of the fuel/water separator so it doesn't really matter that you filter it that often if the water can just slip thru it easily. How much water do you pull from the F/W seps?

Sea Foam is advertised as a motor treatment, not a fuel treatment. They do have an alcohol free fuel treatment but it's for gas only. To me it's the wrong additive for what your're trying to accomplish. The Optilube you run in your pickup would be a much better additive, or any other of the diesel fuel treatments.



At the end of the day it's probably not going to make much of a difference either way, but why not run something designed for what you're trying to do... and something that doesn't have the potential to do more harm than good.

 

[Wiredawg]

Now, y'all can STILL debate whether to use it or not, but it does say it stabilizes fuel, control moisture in fuel, helps stabilize and control fuel for engine storage, etc, etc.

Where this ties or I thought it did with OP comment about red fuel used in failed CP4 wasn't red fuel causes diesel engine problems, but that a lot of folks store it for extended amounts of time, don't filter it out of the storage tank, and that storage conditions can cause moisture in fuel and algae.

My generator runs an hour a month, approximately 4 to 8 hours per year when power goes out, and approximately 2hours per year when it gets serviced and load banked.

So, after reading this, not being real sure of the qualifications of the folks speaking against using SeaFoam for treating extended storage fuel, and as I've read, adds lubricity, I reckon I'll follow my BILs advice, because I DO know his qualifications.

Cheers, Ron

 

[Tuesdak]

If you are worried about bug growth you need a biocide not a additive. Further testing may indicate what "infection" the fuel has (if any) and what biocide will kill it as there is no one size kills all. (well gasoline can) Mold, yeast, bacteria are all killed by different things.

It's not really widely understood, published, or made known the changes to modern ULSD with the addition of Biodiesel in regards to the amount of water the fuel can adsorb. Biodiesel, like it or not, is mandated in some places so we gets to deal with it. The short of this is the more water that is in the fuel the easier it is for the bugs to grow in the fuel itself. Marine, boaters, and their forums have more experience with bio laced diesel causing bug growth.

Old hands are used to the water being on the bottom of the tank and not enough ever mixed with the fuel to be a problem. Then came LSD and now ULSD with their love for moisture. Now the bugs grow in the fuel rather than just at the water fuel layer in the tank.

As an example of alcohol being added to diesel fuel: Say you have a tank of "wet" B99 aka 99% biodiesel. Mix it with 50% #2 ULSD. Sit back and watch the Water in Fuel lights come on as the water falls out of the fuel. Adding alcohol you can watch a blob of water on the bottom of a bucket of diesel disappear into the fuel.

So the short of it is things that allow the fuel to mix, adsorb, suspend even more water are making the existing problem potential for bugs to grow in the fuel worse by allowing the fuel to be wetter. FWIW Better water separators allow higher concentrations of Biodiesel to be approved to run in the past like government fleets with Cummins engines and a additional water separator.

As an aside one of the many ways you could kill an Olds Diesel was adding drygas to the fuel just like you did with gas cars. Alcohol ruined the IP's governor ring and trouble followed. Today Drygas is already in modern gasoline for lowering emissions.

IMO a better plan would be to rotate the fuel for the genset and use it up in something else. 1-2 years max age. Ask the fuel supplier if you can get diesel without any bio added for better odds of trouble free storage.

 

[dieselshadow]

I love additive, oil, tire, and truck manufacturer threads. Always entertaining. Seems as though everyone is an expert and everyone is wrong at the same time.

It’s your truck, it’s your money. Do some research based on facts, not opinions, and be happy.

 

[Minnow101]

View attachment 122663
View attachment 122664
Now, y'all can STILL debate whether to use it or not, but it does say it stabilizes fuel, control moisture in fuel, helps stabilize and control fuel for engine storage, etc, etc.

Cheers, Ron

Personally, I stick with with a known additive that is designed for diesel engines and addresses specific issues and not a product that claims to do everything for every type of fuel powered engine.

 

[endoscott]

Link below is a very interesting in depth discussion of bacterial/fungal biofim as it relates to diesel in fuel tanks, pipes and hoses and how water plays into it. These biofilms can and will populate ANY surface. No material has yet been discovered that does not become populated with biofilm. Oil industry runs PIGs thru pipes both to clean and inspect. Biofilm is very problematic for oil and fuel industry. If you look at the table in the article you will note that of the 4 fungi listed, 3 of them are found in humans and can cause disease or not, depending. Most likely you have Candida living in your mouth harmlessly so don't spit in your fuel. Of the bacteria that thrive in biofilms Pseudomonas can be a lung pathogen and Clostridium can be deadly. Clostridium difficile has become increasingly common in hospitals and can easily grow wildly in the intestinal tract and kill you. We all know about Clostridium botulinum and canning.

If you are going to treat diesel with biocide you want something that will enter both fuel and water phase. If its only dissolving into fuel it won't do much. The biofilm likes to proliferate at fuel water interface. Good pics in the article. If you store diesel long term in tanks you need a low point drain and periodic inspection/clean or at some point you will likely have trouble. Not sure what brands of biocide are out there.

http://www.hpcdfuel.com/pdf/DOWfuel_training.pdf

 

[cerberusiam]

Hmmmm, begs the questions: What is a good biocide, What is a good additive that will bind with water and take it out of the contamination and biologic growth medium, What is good cleaning agent, What has long chain molecules for better lubrication properties?

Would seem that poor maligned IPA additives may have gotten an underserved thumbs down for so long. Maybe a little more fact and less opinion about what is a "good" additive is warranted?

 

[Tuesdak]

It would make a good TDR article. The main takeaway being diesel's limited storage life today vs. WWII era diesel that with decent storage likely would be still good as of today. As far as what biocide: it's the one that kills the infection in the fuel. Some may already be present in the fuel, but, a new bug showing up that's immune to it is clearly a problem. Again testing to make sure the treatment you are using is critical and you are on a timer: The bugs can double in numbers in 24 hours. The fuel can become corrosive and it's a tank to injector tip replacement worst case. Although the new plastic tanks clean out easy vs. pitted and corroded biofilm coated metal tanks of the past noting some current aftermarket aux tanks at a metal disadvantage.

 

[endoscott]

+1 That would be fascinating. Its a VERY complex topic. Lots of biocide products out there. The higher the % of biodiesel in the blend you are using, the more it will be problematic. Biodiesel is very hydrophilic. The bugs love a little water.

 

[Ozymandias]

What do farmers use for fuel back home Ozy?

Today the have to use standard taxed Diesel, in the old days they could get the tax back later but not anymore.
Like said, every self propelled vehicle has to use Diesel fuel, Red is prohibited for all usages except heating or power generation.