CP4 pump email to Cummins...........

[Bug Out]

After getting myself riled over the CP4 pump and begining to regret my 16 trade in on the 2020, I sent Cummins a email asking about the CP4 pump. Not knowing that Cummins actually does not warranty the engines ( I had always thought they did) I was surprised, amused and left breathless after my last runaround with FCA and the wifes JEEP that burned 5 quarts of oil in 4900 miles at 18K on the clock.(service guy was a butt head and have since traded it in on a Hyundai.) Here is the reply I got from Cummins......


Edward,

You would need to address your concerns with Dodge at 1-866-932-3878. Per our contract with Dodge, they purchase the engines without warranty so that they can modify them. As well as they provide all technical and financial support for the engines.



Thank you for contacting Cummins.

Mechelle
Cummins Care Senior Analyst

SR#: 1-108352403813

If you have additional questions please feel free to respond to our support staff by e-mailing care@cummins.com or by calling 1-800-CUMMINS (1-800-286-6467) within the U.S. Additional calling options for outside the U.S. are provided on our website. When contacting us, please refer to the SR (1-108352403813) number listed above, if applicable.

Visit us at www.cummins.com or www.cumminsengines.com

-------Original Message-------

From: cumminsonline@cummins.com
To: support.web@cummins.com
Cc:
Subject: Support Request from cummins.com - A Cummins product/service

Submitted on Wed, 09/02/2020 - 18:47

Submitted by: Anonymous

Submitted values are:

I am a
Customer

I need help with...
A Cummins product/service

Message
I just bought a 2020 RAM 3500 with the 1000ft lb tq motor, AISIN trans etc. From 1997 until 2020, I have bought Dodge /RAM truck with the Cummins because of Cummins being the best diesel engine in this market. (Minus the years of 1998-2002 with the VP-44 fuel pump because of the issues it had.) I now have found out that apparently Cummins is now using the Bosch CP4 fuel system which has a long and steady history of failures. To further add to my agony, I'm told and read that the pump sprays metal particles into the fuel system once it implodes giving Chrysler a way of getting out of repairs etc. ( I would have more faith in a warranty from Kim Jong Un then FCA or Chrysler after my last warranty issue with them.)

Please tell me I don't have to worry wondering whether I will make it to my next RV destination, or should I just throw the towel in now? Had I known this in advance, I would have somehow kept my 2016 RAM Cummins with I'm told a reliable CP3 pump...I also understand the turnaround repair time is months at this point......At over $800 a month a vehicle payments, that could get ugly. Thanks in advance. PS: Please don't give me the corporate speech about how great everything is. Bare bones truth needed.

First Name
Edward

Last Name

 

[Wayne M.]

That’s a VERY shocking disclosure! I wonder if it was always like that? I wonder if it’s like that with the ZF and Asin trans and other sourced components? That FCA owns and assumes the warranty.
I recall the “built for a price” situation with my 04 era engine, and the inferior fuel filtration that (at the time) DCX demanded. Hmmmm.

 

[TFucili]

I think it has always been like that. I'd still like to know if the 6.7s being used in commercial applications and motor homes are stuck with the CP4, or it's just a Ram thing. I might have to go look at a Super C, so I can tilt the hood, and have a peek.

 

[Bug Out]

To be quite honest, I have always bought the "Cummins engine" irregardless of what body it was in. I had no clue Cummins did not warranty it at all. I thought I was set with a "Cummins engine, AISIN trans and AAM axles". The only worry I had was the rest of the Chrysler/FCA stuff... If this CP4 goes out in the first 3 years, before 50K, I might just walk away from RV'ing all together. I don't have time for battles with Chrysler at 60+ years old.

 

[DavidC]

Yes it has alway's been like that. The warranty is under Chrysler/FCA or whoever it is these day's.

 

[DavidC]

I do have to say that Cummin's stepped up and sent me a 56 short block when the 53 went South.

 

[Andy Morrison]

To be quite honest, I have always bought the "Cummins engine" irregardless of what body it was in. I had no clue Cummins did not warranty it at all. I thought I was set with a "Cummins engine, AISIN trans and AAM axles". The only worry I had was the rest of the Chrysler/FCA stuff... If this CP4 goes out in the first 3 years, before 50K, I might just walk away from RV'ing all together. I don't have time for battles with Chrysler at 60+ years old.

 

[Andy Morrison]

I too am 60+. My Ram Cummins adventure started in 1990 with a W250 and a horrific Getrag 5 spd trans. Chrysler replaced the trans no questions asked. Told the dealer NOT to open the trans case just send it back.
Next was a '94 with a 47re trans....big mistake.
Then a '97 with NV 5spd great truck. Only warrenty issue was Dana rear axle housing cracked and was replaced no questions asked.
2005 2500 g56 trans never an issue under warranty. Now 2019 3500 drw.
I've never had any of the nightmare issues . No failed injector pumps, no failed lift pumps and no KDP issues. Maybe I'm lucky but I dont think every truck is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

Just my 2cents....

 

[Wayne M.]

Hello Andy. A true CTD veteran!

 

[Wayne M.]

I think it has always been like that. I'd still like to know if the 6.7s being used in commercial applications and motor homes are stuck with the CP4, or it's just a Ram thing. I might have to go look at a Super C, so I can tilt the hood, and have a peek.

Here’s a current cummins brochure
https://mart.cummins.com/imagelibrary/data/assetfiles/0058499.pdf
showing a (I guess) a genset lineup. The first engine is a B6.7, and you can see that CP4 on the rear drive. Reminder- the Ram is the only 6.7 application that still has a front accessory drive.

 

[TFucili]

Good catch, Wayne!

 

[Wayne M.]

Also shown on that engine is their idea of a fuel filtration system. Look at the size of the primary filter. Keep in mind that whoever that unit goes to would probably put a coalescing water separator similar to a Racor FG.

 

[Ozymandias]

Also shown on that engine is their idea of a fuel filtration system. Look at the size of the primary filter. Keep in mind that whoever that unit goes to would probably put a coalescing water separator similar to a Racor FG.

Air filter the same, decent sized.

 

[Regcabguy]

Yes it has alway's been like that. The warranty is under Chrysler/FCA or whoever it is these day's.

Yep. My 53 block failed at 18K and the service guy said it was on Dodge to replace it...with another 53.

 

[Jim W]

At the rally that was held last year the Cummins management team pointed out that the plant in Columbus IN built engines only for the Ram trucks. All other production of the 6.7L engines were built at a different plant. It was also pointed out at both rallies that I have attended that FCA provided the warranty for these engine, and Cummins sold the engine as is to FCA. They were complete engines that did go through a test stand to pass finial inspection. Most but not all engines were air tested for leaks with some being taken out of the build schedule for actual running using diesel fuel.

This would be true for all other major components that FCA uses in production units being built such as completed axles, transmissions, transfer cases and so forth. The failure rate of these components during the warranty period is used against the supplier during price negotiations for the following year as price contracts are negotiated each year. Usually the large OEM is responsible for the end warranty used in production for their application on their products.

Cat would do this every year when the contract was up for price negotiations with suppliers such as Dana-Spicer, Rexroth, Donaldson, Vickers-Eaton and others. That is how the end manufacture holds the supplier responsible, to insure that the supplier is building a quality product defect free.

Just saying!

 

[endoscott]

So is FCA getting a REALLY good deal from Bosch on these CP4s now?

 

[Ozymandias]

So is FCA getting a REALLY good deal from Bosch on these CP4s now?

Why should they?
Till now we don't see anything more then an average failure rate from these units.
Maybe in the future it CAN change, but by now, nothing to complain about CP4 in this Application.

Thats fact, and not internet bla bla...

 

[Wayne M.]

Actually Ozy, there is a problem with the CP4, and there’s a internal pump rework on the way. They’re redesigning the cam lobe profile. And that’s not internet blabber. That’s straight from FCA.

 

[sag2]

Actually Ozy, there is a problem with the CP4, and there’s a internal pump rework on the way. They’re redesigning the cam lobe profile. And that’s not internet blabber. That’s straight from FCA.

It was also mentioned on the webinar that JR and I were on last Friday.

 

[Wayne M.]

It was also mentioned on the webinar that JR and I were on last Friday.

As was I.