Archived crank seal install

[ArtVandalay]

Ok everyone I'm trying to install the new crank seal after fixing the kdp. I cannot figure out how to get the new seal over the crank stub. I have the plastic guard installed on the inside of the seal but it doesn't slip over the crank stub.

How in the heck is this thing supposed to go on? All the write ups I find just say slip over the crank...but that's just not happening.

 

[Bob4x4]

make sure it does not already have a wear sleeve on it and remember it is installed dry-no lube of any kind,dry crank surface with brake clean

 

[MLee]

Art;
Sounds like you are putting the sleeve into the seal and then putting the assembly on the crank. Is this what you are doing? Put the sleeve on the crank.
Which way do you have the sleeve on the crank? Put the expanded end toward the motor, smaller end outward. It (seal) will slip over the sleeve with a little encouragement. Attach bolts to hold the cover and pull the sleeve out. It wont hurt the seal. The reason you use this is so you don't damage the seal on a ruff edge on the crank.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Art;
Sounds like you are putting the sleeve into the seal and then putting the assembly on the crank. Is this what you are doing? Put the sleeve on the crank.
Which way do you have the sleeve on the crank? Put the expanded end toward the motor, smaller end outward. It (seal) will slip over the sleeve with a little encouragement. Attach bolts to hold the cover and pull the sleeve out. It wont hurt the seal. The reason you use this is so you don't damage the seal on a ruff edge on the crank.

That's what I was trying to do. They shipped the seal with the sleeve backwards inside the seal. I installed the seal in the cover without removing the sleeve and when I tried to install it the flared edge was facing away from the engine...after making a call to a mechanic friend he told me that I needed to flip the sleeve around...5 mins later the cover was on the engine. I didn't get a chance to finish before it got dark so today I need to install the belt and fill yhe coolant and hope for no leaks!

 

[MLee]

!8ft llb on the bolts? What kind of sealer did you use? You used the Geno's kit should have been OK.

 

[ArtVandalay]

!8ft llb on the bolts? What kind of sealer did you use? You used the Geno's kit should have been OK.

I used the Genos kit...and used the sealer supplied in the Geno's kit. I torqued all the bolts to 205 inch pounds, which is as high as my torque wrench went. that's roughly 17 ft. pounds....is it really possibly that that 1 tf/lb deficit is the issue?

 

[BigPapa]

!8ft llb on the bolts? What kind of sealer did you use? You used the Geno's kit should have been OK.

I used the Genos kit...and used the sealer supplied in the Geno's kit. I torqued all the bolts to 205 inch pounds, which is as high as my torque wrench went. that's roughly 17 ft. pounds....is it really possibly that that 1 tf/lb deficit is the issue?

I think MLee is just stating that he thinks the proper torque on the bolts is 18 Ft/Lb.

Your last post stated that the cover was on, you needed to install the belt and fill with coolant. What issue are you having?

 

[ArtVandalay]

I think MLee is just stating that he thinks the proper torque on the bolts is 18 Ft/Lb.

Your last post stated that the cover was on, you needed to install the belt and fill with coolant. What issue are you having?

The original issue was not being able to get the crank seal on due to the install sleeve being backwards. Now it's leaking..

 

[Bob4x4]

Was the seal installed correctly in the cover(square) and dry?No scoring on the crank sealing surface?

 

[BigPapa]

Is the seal leaking or the cover?

 

[ArtVandalay]

Was the seal installed correctly in the cover(square) and dry?No scoring on the crank sealing surface?

Yes sir...cleaned the cover thoroughly, installed the seal dry with a bead of red thread locker around the outside circumference as per the instructions. Looked nice and square in the bore to me...

 

[ArtVandalay]

Is the seal leaking or the cover?

That's a good question...how can I tell?
The only portion of the engine that is wet is below an imaginary line about 5" above the bottom of the block...midway through the crank pulley. Everything above is dry. That leads me to belive the main seal is what is leaking but it could be the bottom portion of the front cover as well.

 

[ArtVandalay]

This is how much it leaked while parked for 9.5 hours at work....

 

[MLee]

Art;
The torque values on the bolts is what my information was when I did I mine, ( no inch torque wrench) one # ft isn't going to make that much difference. Did you inspect the seal for any damage to the sealing surface before you put the cover back on? and did you use the other install tool that looked like a large washer to check the depth of the seal? This also will help align the seal. These question are a little late but should be considered. A nick on the sealing surface could cause i slight leak. I would drive it for a while and see if it goes away.
Mine has a gasket, I cleaned it and used some Permatex #2 for the sealant. (cause I had it) stays pliable.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Art;
The torque values on the bolts is what my information was when I did I mine, ( no inch torque wrench) one # ft isn't going to make that much difference. Did you inspect the seal for any damage to the sealing surface before you put the cover back on? and did you use the other install tool that looked like a large washer to check the depth of the seal? This also will help align the seal. These question are a little late but should be considered. A nick on the sealing surface could cause i slight leak. I would drive it for a while and see if it goes away.
Mine has a gasket, I cleaned it and used some Permatex #2 for the sealant. (cause I had it) stays pliable.

MLee,
I didn't see any damage to either the crank snout or the seal itself. I used the washer looking tool as a seating depth gauge by putting it in the front side of the cover and carefully driving the seal in the cover bore until it made solid, even contact with the washer looking tool. The seal looked square and I didn't nick and of the teflon seal. I put the cover on after figuring out how the plastic sleeve was supposed to go. It was hard to see but it looked like the seal was not folded over or torn.

Prior to that I put an approx. 1/8" bead of the supplied sealant around the cover, including around the bolt holes. Both the cover and the engine mating surface were cleaned with brake clean and a lint free cloth ( used for installed aircraft engine bearings). Aside from a 45 minute hiatus in figuring out how that sleeve was supposed to guide the seal over the crank ( it was backwards; that's how it was shipped and I never removed it) I followed all the steps to a T.

Is it really possible that the leak would go away? I'd think it would either take a set to the crank or it wouldn't...but while I might know how to fix jet engines and am a mechanical engineer I still don't know the intricacies of Cummins engines. One thing working on many makes of cars and aircraft that Ihave learned is that every engine is a bit different and has it's quirks.

 

[MLee]

Art;
sounds like you done every thing right with the exception of installing the seal with the plastic guide in place during the install. I'm not an expert but just been offering suggestions as we have been discussioning this. How did the crank surface look? was it smooth, with no grove in it? Sometimes this will interfere with sealing. But with your mileage should not been a problem. If it were me id keep an eye on it see if it gets worse.
I know its a pain when things like this happens.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Art;
sounds like you done every thing right with the exception of installing the seal with the plastic guide in place during the install. I'm not an expert but just been offering suggestions as we have been discussioning this. How did the crank surface look? was it smooth, with no grove in it? Sometimes this will interfere with sealing. But with your mileage should not been a problem. If it were me id keep an eye on it see if it gets worse.
I know its a pain when things like this happens.

The crank was smooth with the exception of the wear spot from the old seal. I do appreciate your input...it drives me nuts when stuff like this happens and I think I did everything right.

 

[Bob4x4]

If there was a wear spot from the seal and the seal was installed in that location it will leak.If the silicone sealer was setting up for the 45 minutes it will leak

 

[MLee]

If there was a wear spot from the seal and the seal was installed in that location it will leak.If the silicone sealer was setting up for the 45 minutes it will leak

Do you recall how deep the grove was? When installing the seal you want to stay away from the wear spot At 71K it should not have been bad I would think.
Bob, is it possible to install the sleeve with all this stuff in place? or does it need to be removed? never done one before.

 

[ArtVandalay]

Do you recall how deep the grove was? When installing the seal you want to stay away from the wear spot At 71K it should not have been bad I would think.
Bob, is it possible to install the sleeve with all this stuff in place? or does it need to be removed? never done one before.

I didn't measure it but ti didn't look very deep.

I understand that if the new seal happens to ride on the old seal's groove that it would leak; how would I ensure this didn't happen? I used the washer tool as the depth guide for the new seal. I don't know how else I could have put it on and maintained a square install without using that tool.