//// Cummins 5.9 VS DT 466 VS 3208 /////

[AndrewKing]

HI Guys,

I've been looking into getting a larger truck to move my equipment and for general hauling (thinking of a rollback (can pull different equipment onto the truck like a sealcoat rig, hydroseeder, container (for dry enclosed transport), hauling cars . hauling scrap, hauling building materials....well you get the point)...

Anyways, I wanted a truck that would gross at just under 26K so my helpers can drive it without having to get a Class B license.

While there are many engines out there, I noticed that the most popular ones in the under 26K class seems to be the Cummins 5.9 , the DT 466 and the 3208.

While I am very familiar with the 5.9 ( have (3) 3/4 ton Pickups, (1) 1 ton dually, and a Freightliner MT45 Step Van) I wanted to keep an open mind concerning the other engines as well.

What I am most interested in is durability, fuel mileage, and reasonable cost of repairs / parts (I don't have to go fast).

While I know the other engines are larger in displacement, I know that the Cummins can be easily "turned up" easily and cheaply should I want / need more power (Of course I will get a pyro if I do).

So, assuming similar trucks and truck setups (trans/ rear end ratios etc...) , which would get the best fuel mileage?.... which has the best durability?.... what are the relative costs of replacing things / rebuilding things like Filters, Injectors, Injection pumps, cost to rebuild etc...

Thanks in advance for your input.

Andrew

 

[Wayne M.]

The comparison is a bit skewed. A more even trio would be; cummins C8.3, DT466 (assume E), Cat 3116/3126. I wouldn't even go near a 3208. Off the bat, anything CAT is usually more expensive and proprietary. Otherwise they are all good engines that would come in a truck that would be under CDL, and I think the costs would be comparable, with the DT possibly being the cheapest to buy parts for.

IMHO, the headache with under CDL trucks are the brake systems. They're all unique and not as easily fixed as air brake systems.

 

[NIsaacs]

Stay with what you know, the 5.9 Cummins. It will fit with your fleet, good fuel milage, dependable, good power and the parts on your shelf will be common. With a roll back make sure you don't go too short, it's hard to keep the weight off the overhang. I would consider 21' as the minimum length.

Nick

 

[mwilson]

Hydraulic truck brake systems are very expensive to repair as mentioned above. I have one non-CDL truck in my fleet of four and I hate it. We all hate it now I that think about it.

Allison or a 6 speed Fuller transmission, either one is a good choice. Aggressive drivers can and do bend the shift forks on the 6 speed.

The 5.9 Cummins would get my vote, the DT466 might depending on the year.

C-7 Cat or a 3208, no way.

If you are determined to stay under the 26,000lb class at the least get air ride and an air assisted parking brake. My non-CDL truck has taken off after being parked twice over the years due to a malfunction with the mechanical park brake. Automatics in that size truck do not have PARK and are completely dependant on a mechanical brake and chock blocks.

Food for thought.

Mike.

 

[TFucili]

I wouldn't touch a 3208 with a ten foot pole. Mechanical DT466 OK. A 5.9 may not be a barn burner, but you know you've got a reliable piece.

 

[Wayne M.]

We've gained some more under CDL trucks recently. I'm seeing the air assisted park brake along with a passenger car automatic shift pattern including park. Some are newer freightliners with the mb engine. I really don't like that one!

 

[mwilson]

Wayne,

When you get a chance see if those autos with the Park feature are Allison. Grab the last 6 of the vin if you would.

Mike.

 

[Gonzo 1066]

The DT466 is by FAR the least expensive engine to overhaul. A complete inframe will set you back just about $1000 in parts. That being said the parent bore of the 5.9s has proved to last a LONG time before you will need to rebore it to do a overhaul.

 

[DNordvik]

Hold out until you find a truck with air brakes. They are rare in a class 6 truck but they are out there. When I ordered my F650 I ordered the air brakes and air suspension. With air brakes the truck stays where you park it and the parts are common and available easily.

 

[mweiman]

I agree that Cat will be the most expensive to operate, may be good, just more expensive. How new of a truck are you thinking about? Older DT466's(non DPF) will be reasonably cheap to operate and work on. Freightliner will probably be the cheapest as far as parts pricing on trucks and Cummins as far as engine parts. Leasing companies such as Ryder or Penske may be a good place to look for an under CDL air brake equipped truck. Ryder.com, truckpaper.com, and commercialtrucktrader.com are all good websites to check.
Matt

 

[Wayne M.]

Is there any such thing as an under CDL air brake truck? Part of CDL training is use of air brakes. I spotted this one in truck buyers guide in my area.

 

[Wayne M.]

Sorry about sideways pic. Dang phone.

 

[mwilson]

I'm trying to remember if you can get an air brake endorsement without holding a Class 2 or B license, and I can't.........So I found this...

From a Heavy Equipment Forum that I check in on....

"Air Brakes for Under CDL Vehicles
I have been asked if you are required to have a CDL with an air brake endorsement if the vehicle is under 26,000 GVWR a lot lately, and I couldn't find an answer anywhere. So I called the Federal Motor Carrier and Saftey Administration to clarify.
The ruling is that license requirement comes before endorsement requirement, and since a CDL is not required for that vehicle, the air brake endorsement is not required.
I hope this will clarify this issue."

Mike.

 

[Wayne M.]

That was good, Mike. IIRC, anyone doing any commercial driving, even a small tow truck or landscaper, needs a CDL class C. No air brakes needed with a C.

 

[AndrewKing]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the input so far....In response to some of the above comments....

1) I am looking for an older but still nice truck.....Probably something in the 90's (lower prices, less property tax, mechanical is easier for me to fix than computerized / electronic.....although it would be nice to simply program in the performance!)

2) I have never used air brakes (except on our Case 680 Backhoe) but I cannot imagine why it would be cheaper than simple hydraulic brakes...I mean air compressors, tanks, etc... (On the flip side, a caliper bridge was messed up on my 97 Freightliner and they wanted over $1000 for it.....needless we found a way to fix the old part).
I do like the fact that air brakes would be a good parking brake tho and are generally regarded as better stoppers than hydraulic BUT that would mean my helpers may have to get an air brake endorsement....would cut down on flexibility.

3) I like manual transmissions for simplicity and ease operation (helpful w/ different drivers who may not be competent shifting gears)....BUT for the life of me I cannot understand why auto trannys in medium duty trucks don't have a "Park" pin and rely solely on a parking brake cable to keep the truck from rolling ( I thought it was only my Freightliner w/ Allison Auto that didn't have a park position although I have read that later Freightliners have an "auto park" feature that simply means shifting the trans into "park" (or maybe actually still neutral since I have not seen one in person) and a motor automatically applies the parking brake.

On the flip side, believe it or not , a friend of mine got beat an illegal parking ticket when he went to court and fought it . He argues that the sign said " No Parking" and that he was only temporarily stopped....He even went further to say his truck does not even have a "Park" position so technically he couldn't "Park" even if he wanted to.
The judge dismissed the ticked BUT now there is a new sign up that says "No Parking, stopping, or standing" ......I guess the little guy can win every once in awhile!

3) Only reason I haven't considered the 8.3 is because in my searching so far I have only run across 1 truck w/ the 8.3 and that happened to be in a 16' flat bed dump w/ a 33K gross....Nice truck BUT for me a Roll Back would probably be best (Of course a flat bed could work if used in conjunction w/ a Fork Lift or Loading ramp but that requires more equipment that may not be available on the other end of a delivery or job).

4) Just curious but how hard / expensive is it to "tweak" a DT 466 for more performance relative to the 5.9 ?

Thanks!

Andrew

 

[AndrewKing]

I spoke w/ a lady at the VA DMV (Division of motor vehicles) awhile back and she told me that in VA if you have air brakes you have to have a CDL....which seems contrary to what was said above (in that if you are under 26K you don't need a CDL and therefore cannot get the air brake endorsement which would preclude needing any need for special licensing in the first place).

I have seen trucks advertised under 26K with air brakes but shied away from them due to helper licensing....I may have revisit that question with another person in authority at the DMV or police dept (since they would be the ones you have to answer to when they pull you over anyways) BUT then again I read something that said Federal rules are "guidelines" that can be made more "strict" by localities....AARG how's a person to know ?

(BTW - I called the local police just a few minutes ago to ask the question and they said they will have a commercial law enforcement officer call me back.....so hopefully we'll have a good answer on that issue....for VA at least..

Just curious but what is a Class C license? ( I wonder because I do some landscaping as well but I am just licensed with a "regular" license.....I don;t think I need any fancy endorsements since all my vehicles are relatively "small" in weight capacity until (possibly) I get a "new" truck.

Andrew

 

[BIGNASTY]

I like my International 4700 with DT466 if you have a bunch of cowboys driving your trucks, I don't care what you have they will tear it up.

Mine was originally 3?? hp when it was rebuilt it was never put on a Dyno but it pulls pretty strong, im thinking that its got to be close to 400 HP, mine was turned up and I have had NO PROBLEMS with it, but its MINE and I take care not to trim MY toenails in the turbo and ACTUALLY look at the gauges once in awhile on a hard pull.

You can get an in-frame kit to rebuild for around a grand, but with pump work, injectors, turbo, head work, block machining and all the accessories to make a reliable motor COST'S MORE THAN A GRAND!!

JMO BIG

Just my guess but I thought that anything with air brakes needed an endorsement, My FIL's Bus is 55k and has air brakes he has a Non commercial A or C I cant remember which. I think its more of a state by state thing

 

[DNordvik]

I have been through many scales and inspections. I have no cdl or air brake endorsement. This is driving a Ford F650 26000 pound gvw truck with air brakes. I have never been ticketed. When I have asked DOT officers they have told me an air brake endorsement is only required for drivers with a cdl. If you are 26000 pounds or less you will not need an air brake endorsement unless you have a cdl. The F650 I have been driving is a commercial truck not an RV or some other non-commercial private use.

 

[GAmes]

IIRC, anyone doing any commercial driving, even a small tow truck or landscaper, needs a CDL class C.

That is incorrect. I tow commercially with a non-commercial, regular, class C. I an limited to 26,000 GCWR, which means that the biggest trailer I can legally tow will have a GVWR of no more than 15,500 because my '97 has a GVWR of 10,500.

 

[jgillott]

I wouldn't touch a 3208 with a ten foot pole. Mechanical DT466 OK. A 5.9 may not be a barn burner, but you know you've got a reliable piece.

One of the first trucks I drove was an '84 Ford 8000 COE with a 3208 CAT and a strait 5-speed. Hold it to the floor for a half hour or so and you may hit 55.