CUMMINS 600 Re-Flash

[Kerm]

Hey Ya'll,

I am not real happy to here that now after waiting almost 3 months for my new truck. Now that it finally got it! One month later they decide to do a upgrade this large. What really upsets me is that no one @ the dealership said a word about it! I am hoping that my truck can be re-flashed. Anyone know anything??

-kerm

 

[Bertram65]

I doubt the only difference will be programming, plus the new "600" will have probably have different emissions to make it 50 state legal. If you have a HO now don't feel too bad, I have a CA truck, being in MA I have no choice. The new "600" is quite a jump up from what I am driving, I can't wait to try one. It's pretty unlikely I will buy one though I cannot justify taking the deprecation hit this early in the trucks life for a few extra HP.

 

[DLeno]

They kept a very tight lip on the whole story to encorgage and protect sales of the early 2004s it worked for me, as I have an 04 now as well. But I'm not upset at all.



My opinion: the 04 trucks will not be re-flashable to 04. 5 levels because of the NV5600 manual transmission which is spec'd to only 550 ft lbs of torque input. Looks to me like the engine itself is software only (changes in combustion acheived the 50 state legal new power ratings), but in my opinion they'll put a different transmission in there to take the 600. just an opinion, though, I have no authoritative information.



For the automatics, I should think it would be possible to reflash, unless they've made some change to the 48RE that makes the 04s not compatible.



Bottom line is that I seriously doubt that our early 04s will be "re-flashable" to 04. 5 levels. DC has every incentive not to allow this.



As for feeling bad about the 04 purchase. consider that the 04. 5 trucks are only 6. 5% higher in HP, and will have the biggest brother watching eyes since the beginning of the ice age. I say that only to suggest that it may be legal (at least easier) to push an 04 to 350 HP with a fueling box, but it might not be legal to push an 04. 5. I don't know, of course, only speculating that the new engines will be heavily scruitinized come emissions testing time. thats why most of us bought early. The fear of egr was there of course, but mostly it was the fact that our trucks are now treeted as 2003s, as regards the emissions standards. the mechanical aspects of the new engines are identical to the 2003s, as I understand it.

 

[Trizae]

the dealer didnt know anything about the upgrade until just the other day,,,,,,,,,, the day i pulled it off dmail (dealer mail),,, i was going to put a post on here about it but there were already several,,,,,,,,,,,, in fact i think tdr knew before i did,,,,, and i'm a dealer

 

[lil red cummins]

i dont regret ordering mine either.



looks like the alcohol/water injecter alone will more than make up for the difference.



i would really like to get one, however i dont even have the truck yet. this is hard to explain to the wife. i tried the "it would make it safer" routine but she didnt buy it. i even tried "but honey, it will be more efficient and environmentally friendly" routine. that one failed too. maybe early next year we can have another group buy for the 04 newcomers.



we'll be at 325/600 before we know it.



jimh

 

[y-knot]

I must addmit I kind of feel sorry for you guys that bought a truck with-in the last 6 months. I know I'd be kicking myself in the azz. But they had to be secritive about it, who in there right mind would have bought a truck knowing it will be second potatos in less then half a year?? Know one. So they man some good incentives and had low interrest rates and moved all the now dated trucks out. Those germans are some pretty damn sneaky people.

I would say it is only wishfull thinking, in hopping for a re-flash to bring you current. This engine has alot more to it then just a software up-grade. I am kind of excited about it, I have been getting on Dodge/Cummins for not getting with it and changing with the times. But it appears they were in fact preparring for the future, just being sneaky about it. I am crossing my fingers that they did there homework on this thing, god we don't need a FORD issue. The guys that did buy a new truck will either be hero's or zero's, depending on how this plays out. If it goes well, then they probally just lost a good 25% of the value on the truck. If it's a flop, then they will gain 25% on the value. Since I'm not much for betting, I'm glade it's not me.

 

[StephenThomas]

Badge??

A little off the subject, but..... Has anyone gotten a sneak peak at the new Cummins 600 badge yet??

 

[J DeMaio]

What trannys (auto and man) will be behind this engine? They can't possibly offer the current ones (48re and NV 5600) and have it hold up to this power and towing ability.



John

 

[LightmanE300]

I could care less about the new engine, the power difference is so tiny. I'm so glad I got an early 04 with NO emissions equipment or requirements etc. Who knows what kind of garbage this new one will have on it but I'm glad to have gotten the last of the pure cummins diesels!

 

[krabman]

The six-speed is way underrated by the factory, its moving forward with zero changes except for the new higher rating. I'm kind of curious why anybody would be worried about the few extra hp involved in moving up from a 03 or 04 HO? Your not talking about enough extra to feel it in the seat of the pants department. Its the same engine with the same capabilities if you want to bomb. For us that do have it (bombing) in mind the pre smog engine is preferable. I wouldn't kick myself in the ass over buying a dodge six months ago any more than I would kick myself in the ass over not buyin a new powerjoke. It ain't enough to worry about and soon enough somebody else will have more. My guess is the extra power is nothing more than software since they said upfront when the 03's were coming out that they had more power in the (software) bank.

 

[DPelletier]

What Krabman said.

Come on now guys, do you really think the NV5600 can only take 550 ft lbs?!? Hmmm isn't my ETH already rated at 555 ft lbs. The NV5600 is the strongest transmission available in a light truck. Don't expect it to change anytime soon.

I'm glad for the new ratings, but there won't be any significant changes to the engine. The 24valve, that was a major change, the HPCR, that was a major change.

I agree that DC has no incentive to offer a reflash. If we want 20 more HP and 45 more ft lbs, we'll have to go the bomb route.

Y-knot, don't bother feeling sorry for me! Go feel sorry for someone driving a F*rd! I knew there was a change coming and bought an '03 for exactly that reason. I seriously doubt there is "alot more to it" than a software upgrade. I LOVE this truck. WAY better than my 2nd gen. I hope the '04. 5 is a great truck too, but I didn't want some undefined emissions "goodies". 20 hp wasn't worth it to me.

Dave

 

[DPelletier]

Oh yeah,

and the people that really benefit are those that live in the SO only states. I am really glad they can finally get an ETH.

Dave

 

[klenger]

If the NV5600 can only take 550 lb-ft, why is it that all the members who have been bombing haven't been trashing them out. I suspect the clutch is much weaker than the transmission.



I just went to the authority (Fritz's website) and found the following:

There are two versions of the NV5600



The Ram version is rated for 550 LB-ft input torque

A HD version for larger trucks is rated for 650 LB-ft input.

http://dodgeram.org/tech/transmission/nv5600_spec.html

 

[y-knot]

Come on... . this site has never been about 5-10 hp here or there. It's about the latest greatest new gizmo. And now you guys have a old gizmo, not nearly the latest and greatest, so that means someone else will have the spotlight. You guy's got stiffed. I would sure as hellz be mad, no one wants to buy anything durring it's last year of production. If it doesn't bother you then I say HOORAY, you must be a better man then me. Cause It would just make my azz itch.

 

[DPelletier]

Y-knot,

You musta been pretty peeved when the power went up in '98. 5, '01 etc, etc. LOL.

I don't feel stiffed.

Bottom line is that product lines continuously change. If you are afraid of someone else getting something better, you better not buy anything! This computer I'm using was the best that money could buy last X-mass. Its not now!

Nothing is in its last year of production? I imagine the 3rd gens will be around for awhile yet and the "new" 600 is an ETH.

I suppose I might be a little upset if I had just bought a SO with a 47RE.

Dave

 

[krabman]

What I was saying is that I could of got 25 extra paper hp by buying a powerjoke. 25 hp isn't a whole lot. Were you to be blindfolded and drive both I really doubt you would be able to tell the difference. You apparently don't hang out with the same guys I do. Those that I know that were interested in a new truck wanted to buy before so they could avoid the emissions. The new engine is nothing more than a computer powerup (which I already have) and some extra emission junk. Its the same truck, same engine, not the latest and greatest. Now if I had a 93 and bought right before the 94's hit then I would probably be bummed out in just the way you describe. The fact is if you bomb your truck with the same stuff I have you wont have more power we will be equal and if you don't then I will have a lot more than you do. And the same truck. And no emissions to bite me in the rear end at a later date. Now if you go buy your new truck and it turns out you can select the hot coffee option and get it to fill up your cup from an in cab spigot I'll be plenty jealous.

 

[KBertetto]

NV 5600

I've already ordered a Cummins 600, and as far as my order sheet is spec'd out, it says in plain English (which is a miracle these days) that the transmission is a Heavy Duty 6 speed manual and in parenthesis is NV5600. Hope this helps for those of you with questions about the manuals.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Originally posted by DPelletier

Oh yeah,

and the people that really benefit are those that live in the SO only states. I am really glad they can finally get an ETH.

Dave

Lets see if I get this right.



With my DDII's and BullyDog Prototype box I am seeing around 180 extra HP from Stock. Not to mention that with the pusherpump and Turbo going in I should see about 50+ HP. That puts me at somewhere around 425 Hp no problem.



I got an ETH and it is a 5500 [/IMG]#ad

 

[DPKetchum]

Well I think the weak spot is clutch. that is easily cured by D. C. To be honest if they do use the 48re and take some HINTS from the aftermarket trans gurus it "CAN" be made bullet proof also. They were already heading in that direction with the depute of the 48re. Admit a day late and a dollar short.

 

[DPelletier]

Greg,

The vast majority of purchasers are going to leave thier trucks stock, and for them having the ETH will be a nice improvement.

That was my point. I am also tired of reading the whining about the Cummins on the F*rd or Chevy sites about the fact that it can't meet emissions in California and elsewhere. The new release fixes that.

Please don't think I was bashing your truck, just making a point that I believe that the new release isn't going to be a HUGE improvement for those of us that already have an ETH. Nice truck, you have there, Greg. Do you happen to have any extra 5500 badges!



Ken,

You always seem to have the right info at your fingertips! Also note that Fritz's site says "1999 - 2001 Ram NV5600 Specs". I am sure the rating was already increased for our 555 ft lb trucks. In any regard, another reason why I bought the new truck was to ditch my 47RE and get the NV5600. From all reports it is a much stronger trans. than Ford or GM's alum. ZF 6spd. We have the strongest most durable motor AND transmission available in this package and yet all the GM guys do is thump thier chest about the Allison. Thats nice if you want an auto, but it doesn't take away from the fact that the NV5600 is a great transmission, arguably the strongest available in a diesel pickup.



Thanks to Bert&Holli for the info. No surprises there.



Cheers

Dave