CUMMINS 600 Re-Flash

[y-knot]

That is my point, The people that will do major modifications realy don't care about HP numbers. But the ones that like it stock, or live where the HO was not sold will be very upset with themselfes and Dodge. The manual transmission doesn't sound like an issue, and I can see why someone would have traded a truck to get away from the automatic. I think that makes since, to fix the problem you would have to invest $4500. 00 and why not trade it off and put the money in a new truck. Hopefully they gave some serious thought to addressing the problems with the automatic transmission. The 48 was a step in that direction, but fell way short of being a reliable longterm fix, the TC needs to be addressed. I don't think I would buy a auto tell there has been real change.

 

[DLeno]

For all you guys drooling over the new power in the 04. 5 Cummins 600, here's how to quantify the difference over the current 04s:



1. At the very best (meaning its not quite this much), the new one might accelerate to 64 or 65 mph instead of 60 mph, given the same acceleration time and all other conditions identical.



2. The new one will maintain towing speed on a steeper grade -- it will endure 25 more feet per mile of incline! oooooohhhhh.



as for the NV5600 transmission, yea, DC just confirmed with me over the phone that it is in fact a 555 ft lb rated transmission, and that their current information indicates that the same transmission will be used with the 600 ft lb cummins. hmmm. So I asked them a very specific question: "so you're telling me that you are putting a 555 ft lb transmission with a 600 ft lb engine". the answer was something like:



"that is our current information. However, the new trucks are not yet in production and for those trucks to be delivered in January, this information could change. "



Muncie Transmission told me they have not been asked to increase the torque rating of the NV5600 from 550 ft lbs.



So if you ask me, this means that DC may have tested the NV5600 and found it to hold up, at least until they source another transmission. Given that the NV5600 is made by a wholey owned subsidiary of GM, my guess is that they wont' be using it long term...



So you guys are probably right -- the NV5600 is a tank and if DC puts it with the new 600, it will only increase our confidence in this transmission for bombed trucks. It certainly has the reputation for it now.

 

[klenger]

... all the GM guys do is thump thier chest about the Allison. Thats nice if you want an auto, ...

The Allison is also about a $2500 option, plus the price of the Duramax. Ouch! What's it going to cost to rebuild an Allison when they are out of warranty? More than a clutch I think.



For those of you that bought an '04, and are feeling bad about not getting the latest, consider this. Were you happy with the truck before the announcement about the 04. 5's? If so, you still have the same truck, and it still works like it did before. Enjoy your fine truck. It can be very expensive to always have the latest and best, and few can afford to keep up with it.

 

[krabman]

The truck is going forward with the nv5600 unchanged except for the new higher rating. The 555 rating was put in place not because that was the maximum torque the transmission could hold but because thats the rating DC wanted. This is done strictly to limit liability. About 10 years ago I repowered a 399 over to a 3516. When the boys from Falk came down to do the necessary work to the reduction gear which was rated at 1200 hp their entire upgrade consisted of popping the rivets off the plaque on the side of the gear and putting a new one on that said 1800 hp. That gear is still running fine. There is implied suitability for a task and many other reasons why you will normally only see ratings that are equal to or slightly greater than the application requires. I can see why someone who had purchased an SO or CA truck might be interested in looking into the new one. They will gain in improvement they can feel. Those with the HO's will not. As for the output of the engine I was talking to a Cummins rep back in 02 when I got my truck and he told me that they already had more hp available in software and the hp was set where it was strictly from a marketing/positioning stance.

 

[DLeno]

yea, component ratings are certainly funny. about as funny as GVWR I think . some express design limits, some do not. So all indications at this point indicate "moving forward" with the NV5600, from what I'm reading here. I hope they stick with it, actually. I just don't see any indication that the NV5600 is a long term commitment for the RAM.



Krabman,what you say makes sense -- that there is no change to the NV5600. how did you find that out? Muncie tells me they are owned by GM, no longer part of New Venture Gear, and that DC has not asked them to increase the torque rating. To me, that means the NV5600 days are numbered.



who is stamping the new rating on the NV5600? DC must be, and they must be taking over warranty on those transmissions, just like they do on the Cummins engine itself. That little numbers game allows them to:



1. support the NV5600 for the 04. 5s

2. maintain their drivetrain liability protection for the 04s

 

[XcumminsX]

guys dont manuals have a +0-33% error of what it can handle or something like that... . So NV can just change the numbers

 

[DLeno]

The ratings are simply an expression of what liability the entity giving them wishes to accept. I know of no engineering maxim suggesting that the mechanical limits of a manual transmission cannot be predicted accurately, and I'm not aware of any engineering practice or experience suggesting that the actual limits of manual transmissions in volume production form a one-sided distribution.



The correlation between a published spec and the actual design limits of a component is all a matter of meeting financial goals. Those goals include:



1. exposure to liability

2. up-front expense required to accurately set the limit

3. up-sell potential

4. market share and revenue



and remember that according to the mfg, the limits will not be increased -- assuming what I'm told is correct of course. DC is going to have to assume the liability and re-badge the device.

 

[Jumbo Jet]

I bought my 2004 knowing the uprate was coming. After driving the 2002, the 2004 is great!

 

[scramblin]

Originally posted by DLeno

.



as for the NV5600 transmission, yea, DC just confirmed with me over the phone that it is in fact a 555 ft lb rated transmission, and that their current information indicates that the same transmission will be used with the 600 ft lb cummins. hmmm. So I asked them a very specific question: "so you're telling me that you are putting a 555 ft lb transmission with a 600 ft lb engine". the answer was something like:



"that is our current information. However, the new trucks are not yet in production and for those trucks to be delivered in January, this information could change. "



Muncie Transmission told me they have not been asked to increase the torque rating of the NV5600 from 550 ft lbs.



So if you ask me, this means that DC may have tested the NV5600 and found it to hold up, at least until they source another transmission. Given that the NV5600 is made by a wholey owned subsidiary of GM, my guess is that they wont' be using it long term...



So you guys are probably right -- the NV5600 is a tank and if DC puts it with the new 600, it will only increase our confidence in this transmission for bombed trucks. It certainly has the reputation for it now.

A little bird told me that they were bringing the Getrag back.

 

[y-knot]

Since we are dealing with Cummins and not a fly by night company, I would expect more then just a HP increase. Something similar to the HO over the Normal Cummins. People could ***** all they wanted, but you could not make a HO out of a standard Cummins. They had differences that were internal to the engine, and could not be duplicated. Anyone can up the horsepower, that is a given. But I am thinking Cummins went a little further then that. They have alot riding on there engines, and are known to be bulletproof. And with all the crap Ford has been taken over there latest diesel, I am sure they are very conscious for the public image, and record of durability. On the trany issue, I can only hope they are as through. Being this is a Dodge issue and has nothing to do with Cummins, I am a little more skeptical. But on the other hand, they too are very aware of the issues that Ford has had, and if they play there cards right they could very well take a large part of Ford's market share. From what I can see, the number one reason that people spend the extra money is for the durability of the diesel engine and the peace of mind that comes with it. Ford has taken that away, and this seems like the most logical time to introduce Cummins latest offering. That being the most powerfull diesel engine available, offered in the Dodge Ram pick-up, and produced by Cummins.

The whole issue of weather or not you feel good or bad about your recent purchase of a Dodge truck, is dependent upon what they change and how it might effect you. The folks that live where the HO was not available, have a reason (?) to be pee'd, if they really wanted a HO, and I can't imagine not. And if they do in fact release a new,better auto trany then I can see where that would bother me if I wanted to go with the auto but didn't because of it's problems. Or if I bought a 48 and they came out with something better. Dodge seems to be pretty savvy, and whatever they do I am sure it geared toward increasing market share, which means better products for us. Now if they would just give us 4 full size doors, the MB 5-speed auto, and 19. 5" wheels they would own the market!

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

What has my curiosity piqued is the heinous rumor that I read in some post that the exhaust manifold has been redesigned and its a 5" from the turbo to the muffler and then 4" from there. Plus there isn't an EGR or Cat.



if thats the case this puppy can breathe.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I visited the New Venture booth at the 2002 TDR Nationals in Columbus, IN. I picked up their flyers on the NV5600. Rated torque on the flyer was 600 ft lb.

 

[klenger]

I wonder if the 550 ft-lb torque limit on the NV5600 was determined back when no one made an engine that would put out that much. Now that there is, they just changed the spec. I seriously doubt that the NV5600 is a week link.

 

[DPelletier]

Thats's what I was waiting for. Thanks Joe.



I agree Ken, If GM can put 570 ft lbs in front of thier ZF, and 590 ft lbs (albeit defueled in 1st and 5th) in front of thier Allison auto, I don't think the '5600 is going to have a problem with 600 ft lbs.



The six speed has been available since 2000 and I sure haven't heard of much in the way of problems, especially with regards to damage from too much power.



Anyways, I am going to go drive my truck now.



Chow,

Dave

 

[BIG BOB]

Originally posted by LightmanE300

I could care less about the new engine, the power difference is so tiny. I'm so glad I got an early 04 with NO emissions equipment or requirements etc. Who knows what kind of garbage this new one will have on it but I'm glad to have gotten the last of the pure cummins diesels!

LightmanE300,



I'm with you on this one! 20 HP and 45 ft/lbs of torque is nothing! BOMBS away with injectors, and fueling and timing boxes with no worry of the Feds looking over your shoulder with a big fat FINE!

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Any word yet on the EGR system?

 

[DLeno]

Originally posted by Ol'TrailDog

What has my curiosity piqued is the heinous rumor that I read in some post that the exhaust manifold has been redesigned and its a 5" from the turbo to the muffler and then 4" from there. Plus there isn't an EGR or Cat.



if thats the case this puppy can breathe.

well that rumor was started by the DC call center and I promptly propogated it...



thats what they told me -- and just yesterday they told me the turbocharger was different as well. so much rumor, so little real information...



Yea, good news on the NV5600. remember that ratings are an expression of whatever liability that he entity publishing them wishes to take on. Funny that it suddenly became 600. Muncie transmission did tell me that the 550 ft lb spec was not going to change, but he might have been mistaken as well!

 

[DPKetchum]

There fixing that damn DRONE by redesigning the manifold and turbo. *******s. They wont address that problem on 03/04 cost them too much

 

[wlowe]

Has anyone seen the towing weights for the new 600? Was just curious to know if they raised them.

 

[DLeno]

Here's the relevant text from the press release:





In addition to massive torque, the Cummins 600-powered Ram boasts best-in-class towing capability of 16,400 lbs. , which Chrysler notes is 3,000 lbs more than Ford’s F-350 outfitted with a PowerStroke diesel. The Ram’s gross combined weight and gross vehicleweight ratings of 23,000 lbs and 12,000 lbs, respectively, also are purported to be tops in the segment.



They're talking about the dually, of course, for that 12,000 lbs GVWR. the SRW 3500s are still at 9900 I think. same GCWR.