Cummins ECM Hacking

[Marco]

For the people that have E-Mailed me, my offer was directed to

Gary - KJ6Q to help him with the hesitation problem.



TST had problems with Cummins because they used Cummins software/systems to flash the ECM's with Cummins stock software. The software they used was the "275/RV" software.



I agree, would they have used their own SW Cummins couldn't have done anything about it.



The international software protection laws mention also that if a software is changed by 25-30% then the resulting SW can be considered a different version. So that new SW version can be copyrighted. I can change more in the Cummins code than that 25-30%... Oo.



Marco

 

[Marco]

Does this mean you have worked out all the bugs and are ready to go to market with your MAD ECMs for VP trucks?

Sorry I didn't notice that question before.



Before everybody becomes too excited let me explain...

We're in the wrong forum here since we're talking about the VP engines... Oh well...



The software is working great now. Timing is OK, torque managment works, fuel curve is working fine... I've tested the latest software over the last six months with no problems at all.



Software wise we've hit the nail on it's head.



I've called that file Clutch and Traction Challenger, short the CaTCHER.



A good review of that file can be found here:

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?threadid=39077



The only thing I would emphatize more is the turbo spool up.

My HX-40 is up to full spool by 1400 Rpm with the CaTCHER. That's at least 300 Rpm sooner than with the stock software!



The only problem with the CaTCHER is on a wet or otherwise slippery road. Too much throttle and rear tires will try to stay in front of the front tires... Happend to me on a wet road @ 70MPH!

A little too much throttle the torque comes in... . and away the rear end goes... .

One has to be a good driver with that beast in the ECM...



Not working. ( Dunno yet, or ever )



I have not found the rev limiter under load. I can let the engine rev up to 4K under no load but that's not very usefull.



Multiple files are a no-no



ECM with a single file, that is working fine.



Marco

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"For the people that have E-Mailed me, my offer was directed to

Gary - KJ6Q to help him with the hesitation problem. '



Marco, I want to thank you personally for that - and apologize to you and the group if my comments and concerns made it look as though I personally was having lots of problems with the hesitation - I personally have only had it 3 consequetive days in unusual (for me) situations - but it was enough to make me aware of the issue, and realize I was potentially affected too - and to dig for a possible solution in CASE I was ever exposed to the same scenario again. Those of us affected have also been unsure if this effect stays at a constant level, or gets worse over time, and what potential damage might occur if it remains uncorrected. SOME have indicated the problem HAS gotten worse for them over time - either because of the affected individual component getting worse, or the damage it can create to other components if not corrected.



It would do little good for me to have MY ECM modified, since I am rerely exposed to cold-weather RV towing - but it WOULD be a good thing for some of the affected colder climate guys with the problem to try, to see if it IS purely a fuel delivery programming problem inside the ECM.



The confusion to me, is that not ALL trucks display this effect - if it was a pure fuel delivery problem, it would seem they would ALL react the same way in cold weather - if it is an internal individual component tolerance ECM problem, that is something else - and if it is a tolerance problem with an EXTERNAL sensor that is otherwise (in warmer weather) operating properly, it might be possible to replace it with one of a better value - IF we knew which sensor, and which way the tolerance needed to go to eliminate the problem...



BUT again Marco, I thank you for your kind offer, and as stated in another post up above, if I eventually come up with an economical spare ECM, I will contact you for whatever help you will be willing to provide.

 

[Marco]

The confusion to me, is that not ALL trucks display this effect

Not all trucks have the same software in their ECM.



I've found that certain softwares are more prone to the hesitation than others.



Marco

 

[Agades]

I spent $14,500 to get rid of the stumble problem in my 02 truck



I believe to this day that the programming in my ecm was the cause of the problem (because it showed up the day an" idiot "reflashed it) Tried reflashing twice but didnt do any good because it wont let u flash again till there is an update. just kickd you off if the program # isnt in succession



program 1 - 2 etc

wont let you go 2-1 etc



very true that cummins and DC arent going to fix it



truthfully, I got the impression that they dont care. Simply because the stumble is barely felt on a stock truck

once you bomb it in any way the stumble is multiplied

 

[Marco]

I don't think they ( Cummins-DC ) don't care. If they COULD they would fix it. The fact is that as the original MFR of the Engine/Truck they have to pay close attention to emissions.



EPA rulez...



That and the "customer satisfaction" combined makes it almost impossible to cure that problem from their side.



IF the hesitation is due to the fuel curve there are two ways to correct it.



Raise it in certain sectors. That is a no no for DC because emissions won't stay within EPA's specs.



Lower it in the low torque department. Well I would like to see what average Joe would say if his stock truck was a gutless dog because the BOMBing club needs the fuel that way...



Makes sense?



Marco

 

[Dieselnutz]

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does this mean you have worked out all the bugs and are ready to go to market with your MAD ECMs for VP trucks?



Hey Marco I want one. When will they be out? P. M. me if you need a test pilot. I pulled the sled for the first time yesterday. I may be hooked and of course I need more power.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

OK, since we now have Marco's attention, and this subject continues, let's pick his ECM - er, BRAIN a bit more...



Marco, LOTS of past posts on this hesitation issue have pretty much isolated the fact it occurs primarily on COLD temperatures, is more obvious if towing or other significant loads are involved, and DO vary from one truck to another more than simple different ECM programs might indicate - some, like mine are rather minor, others very annoying - I dunno HOW many variations in DC ECM programming exist, but surely not as many as the apparent variations in hesitation/surging among owners would seem to indicate...



It would SEEM there is some cold-related variable involved here - either a temperature sensitive component or circuit INSIDE the ECM, or one of the EXTERNAL sensors feeding it. I have no doubt the end effect directly controls fuel delivery, timing or both, but if a major contributing factor IS an external sensor such as an out of tolerance IAT - or if one that is higher or lower in it's scale of operation, that MIGHT be enough for many of us to eliminate our problem withot need of digging into the ECM itself.



Of course, if it is ONLY programming, or internal component tolerance issues, we're sorta dead in the water...



I guess the SHORT question is, is there likely ANYTHING *external* we might try to minimize or eliminate this problem other than the more drastic "reduction of torque" you mention above?

 

[Marco]

Of course, if it is ONLY programming, or internal component tolerance issues, we're sorta dead in the water...

We'd need to rule out the possible cause(s) for that problem.

What comes first to mind is, fuel delivery, TPS, MAP, groundings.



That's about the only components that could cause the hesitation in my mind.



In the past I've tried several times to trace down the problem with different members. As it happens most times here on TDR one provides a possible solution for a problem, what follows then is silence... .



That leaves us all without the feedback if a problem is solved.



I think Agades has tried all the possible soultions (except my ECM ) for that problem. He ended up buying a new truck...



So from what I can gather here it looks pretty much like the ECM software.



Keep in mind, MIGHT be, I'm not 100% sure that it is!!!



All that I can say is that I can get that hesitation at desire.

And what I've seen is identcal to what you're all reporting here.

other than the more drastic "reduction of torque" you mention above?

HEY! I've never said I'd reduce the torque! That's no fun!

I've always wanted to raise it!



In fact I've increased the fuel curve and the hesitation went away.



Marco

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

The only thing that puzzles me regarding the ECM fuel curve bit, is that you (*I*) would think that if that was the primary cause of the hesitation, merely INCREASING fueling by upping the setting of the comp to one of the higher levels would overcome that issue - but it does not...

 

[Marco]

Gary,

nothing to be puzzled about!



Think about a box like it was the amplifier of your stereo. The higher you raise the volume then louder the music...



The more fuel you add with the box then more amplified becomes the hesitation. The fuel curve in the ECM simply over reacts.



Clear as mud?



I'm @ home now, tomorrow I'll try to post a pic of the fuel curve that can cause the stumble and the corrected one.

I have all that stuff in my shop.



Marco

 

[Agades]

Originally posted by Marco

I think Agades has tried all the possible soultions (except my ECM ) for that problem. He ended up buying a new truck...



Marco

this is true



and Im really wishing I could have tried one



I just got really sick of spending loot and losing sleep and spending loot ... ... ... and so on



so , yes I chickened out and bought a new one



and it gets me very steamed evertytime I see my old truck go through town cause I really wanted to keep that one



Im only 27 years old and now have gray hair because of that truck

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Yeah - that "middle of Minnesota" in your locator sorta tells the story about cold weather fueling problems...



But, I read stories about some of the 3rd generation trucks still seeing the same type hesitation/surging - hope you don't get MORE grey hair added!

 

[GGades]

I'm Agades' big brother, only 31, have a brand new sputterin' 600, two kids, and grey hair in places I didn't even know I had places.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I rest my case...

 

[Agades]

the good news is my 03 runs beautiful

so I got rid of the shakes (not the way I wanted to)



the bad news is my hair is getting more gray because of the 25 screaming students I have to deal with everyday



I think the hesitation you are referring to in the 3rd gens mostly is in the 04. 5's and the 03 -04's with bad lift pumps (some havent caught on that you have to monitor fuel press. yet)



I havent seen any 305/555 03-04 trucks with an uncureable stumble as of yet



oh yah, The stumble I had in my 02 was a bit worse in cold weather but didnt go away no matter how warm it got outside.

Of course I became very sensative to the stumble and could predict the exact moment it would start at any given RPM, load, boost level, speed , etc.

yet for some reason, NO ONE in the states could fix it

or at least NO ONE who tried could fix it



believe me, I tried everyone who was willing

 

[JRG]

Lower it in the low torque department. Well I would like to see what average Joe would say if his stock truck was a gutless dog because the BOMBing club needs the fuel that way...

You mean like Ford?



JRG

 

[Marco]

Fuel Tbale

This are the Fuel tables.

 

[Marco]

Sorry for the poor quality! 400 X 400 does not help...



What you're looking at are two different fuel tables. The red one is the stock table that gives me the worsest hesitation.

In blue ( at least should be blue ) is my version of that fuelling.

No more hesitation or stumble...



The two marked sections are the bytes that cause the hesitation.



Marco

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Marco,

Would it be possible to install an ECM from a 2003 HO into a 2003 SO?



Just wondering if it would give the 305 HP?



Thank you,

Greg Boardman