Cummins, GM and Ford Diesel componet comparison

[richardcoxid]

This goes to show that sometimes the advertising writers don't know diddley squat about they are trying to write about

 

[Ncostello]

I'm sure the difference in size for the pistons is due to the fact there are 8 instead of 6 doing the work. So they don't need to be as big to do their job in their cylinder. Same on the rods. They were basically all sized to handle the load they were anticipated to see. Different strokes and bores have different needs. And there are size considerations for fitting the block into the chassis. If the V8 diesels all had Cummins sized pistons and rods... the blocks would be taller and longer, costing more to make be weighing more... to produce the same target power. Nobody builds and produces and engine to knowingly handle double or triple the horsepower and torque applied by aftermarket parts. This is true of all engines. They've all got limits beyond stock. Cummins probably being the most capable to handle the additional to a point.



We've got 4 Dodge 3500 dumps at work (99 and 2000's) which are still ticking well. Bodies are going away... but all in all they are still pretty good trucks. Typical VP44 issues and some broken leaf springs out back. We have one 2004 Duramax 3500 dump which is great... but the front suspension isnt the best for ground clearance.



We just took delivery of 4 new F350 6. 7L Powerstrokes which have been doing well since November. Time will tell. One thing is for certain... they DO have power and driving them is as comfortable as any SUV.



Just to mix things up a little in my life... I purchased a 2002 HD2500 Duramax 4x4 a few years back and drove it as a daily driver. I liked the interior and the Allison 5spd. It was all stock and got a solid 18mpg average all the time. It didn't have EGR or converters from the factory... so that helped. At around 150K miles the Bosch commonrail injectors began wearing out and the cost to replace all 8 was about $2500. I was ready to move on so I sold it (and I did disclose the injector issue).



Prior to this I had a 99 Cummins 2500 quad cab... which was a great truck except for the lift pump issues and VP44 issues. I loved the 24V ISB... but think I liked the LB7 Duramax just as much. Once you spend some time with something else... you can see whats good and bad. I must say that in 2001/2002 the Duramax was years ahead of either Ford or Dodge... HP and torque included. LB7 non-emission package engines are sort of like a common rail version of the 7. 3L Powerstroke. Except they can be made to make HUGE power... unlike the HEUI injected Powerstrokes. My Duramax was very simple in design and layout and once you move the A/C crap, intercooler pipes and some wires out of the way... its very basic under there.



The Duramax (all generations) is a very solid platform. Any large ticket truck pull event will show that they do very well... and can win the day. With a great aftermarket following and superior tuning software (EFI LIVE)... they are proven performers.



The 7. 3L Powerstrokes are no doubt solid performers. Limited in performance (more or less) but still a great following for obvious reasons.



The 6. 0L engines are actually outstanding engines in my opinion. By far, technoligically superior to 7. 3L's in many respects. Many great ideas on them. What they suffer from is mechanical failure due to emission related component failure. Ford coolant contains silicates... which form solids from the high heat of the EGR cooler... which then blocks passages in the oil cooler... which then restricts the EGR cooler of coolant (and oil cooler)... which then causes EGR cooler failure and coolant to get into the combustion chamber... which causes very high pressures and blows out head gaskets. On the turbos, people baby them too much and carbon up the sliding vanes on the Garrett VGT turbo causing issues. The EGR valve also gets carboned up and causes issues.



For those who have done total EGR deletes (or HD EGR cooler replacements) and installed aftermarket oil coolers/remote spin on filters, head gaskets/studs and switched to Cat ELC coolants... they are good performers. Again... limited in HP making ability by the injection system.



6. 4L Powerstrokes did good on the common rail theme... but ran aground on twin turbo complications and emission control problems. They were plagued with a myriad of issues and to top it off... got POOR mileage because of DPF's and engine damage because of the way International did the DPF regens... by injecting additional fuel using the injectors of non-firing cylinders... which washes them down and ruins the oil at the same time. All in all an expensive nightmare up front and down the road. I'd much rather have a 6. 0L. Then there are those who never had a problem.



6. 7L Powerstrokes are still out for deliberation. Only time will tell. And there's no point in mentioning the reliability (and here-and-there problems) of the Cummins powerplants on this website. We all know what they are about.



One things is for sure... Ford sure hit a homerun in my opinion on all generations of the TorqShift transmissions. Allisons are great too if you don't up the power much... as Allison has always seemed to match designs with target power ranges well. If you want a stronger Allison... you'd move up to a different series... which isn't possible in pickups. Aftermarket builders can fix all that.

 

[NavyDood]

The 6. 0L engines are actually outstanding engines in my opinion. By far, technoligically superior to 7. 3L's in many respects. Many great ideas on them. What they suffer from is mechanical failure due to emission related component failure. Ford coolant contains silicates... which form solids from the high heat of the EGR cooler... which then blocks passages in the oil cooler... which then restricts the EGR cooler of coolant (and oil cooler)... which then causes EGR cooler failure and coolant to get into the combustion chamber... which causes very high pressures and blows out head gaskets. On the turbos, people baby them too much and carbon up the sliding vanes on the Garrett VGT turbo causing issues. The EGR valve also gets carboned up and causes issues.

The actual problem is casting sand in the blocks that starts the initial EGR cooler plugging and then it is a snowball effect after that. There is nothing wrong with HOAT antifreeze and can run without issue. It is a low silicate formula.

6. 4L Powerstrokes did good on the common rail theme... but ran aground on twin turbo complications and emission control problems. They were plagued with a myriad of issues and to top it off... got POOR mileage because of DPF's and engine damage because of the way International did the DPF regens... by injecting additional fuel using the injectors of non-firing cylinders... which washes them down and ruins the oil at the same time. All in all an expensive nightmare up front and down the road. I'd much rather have a 6. 0L. Then there are those who never had a problem.

Where did Navistar have any play in the DPF system? They provided the base engine. Ford did the programming and exhaust after treatment.

One things is for sure... Ford sure hit a homerun in my opinion on all generations of the TorqShift transmissions.

True. It has come off as a pretty good transmission. The 5R100 design was kinda retarded since it had six sets of fwd gears in it but only five were ever used in the shift theory. It was either 1-2-3-4-6 or 1-2-3-5-6 depending on how cold out it was. But hey, it was cheaper to do the electrical programming to only use five shifts at any given time than to make the whole system work as a six speed. The new 6R100 is good too. Ford still needs to tweak on the programming a bit though.

 

[JamesStevens]

industrial

Well, gentlemen I enjoyed and appreciate all your comments! I still believe that Dodge (now Ram) is missing out on some very good and POINTED advertising opportunities that would show the advantages of the inline 6 Cummins vs. the V8 of the competition.



Richard

I wish they would advertise the industrial aspect of our B series motors more. I operate cranes from 60Ton to 90Ton (Grove) cranes that have our beloved B series, and other then one carter lift pump, not one problem.