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Cummins, inc. Officially recommends power service® diesel kleen +cetane and diesel fu

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As it stands now, Cummins warrantees this engine for 100,000 miles using regular ULSD fuel.


Uh uh, that is wrong on several counts. Cummins doesn't warranty the engine in our trucks, FCA does. FCA has been VERY clear about warranty work on fuel systems and the engine, in particular as it applies to fuel quality. Any statement about what fuel is allowed is accompanied by a minimum fuel spec ANY fuel used in a Cummins powered Ram MUST meet for warranty consideration. It is very clear, doesn't meet spec doesn't meet warranty. Both Cummins and Bosch have adopted said fuel spec and published required adherence for warranty consideration. That statement is totally misleading, based on clear direction from all 3 manufacturers in question.


Until then, you are criticizing me for my personal opinion without any basis of knowledge to support yours.


As I am allowed to if so inclined. You are welcome to have them and freely express them, as I would be to dispute them if I cared to. The fallacy of your opinions is obvious, no reason to dwell on it other than to point out you have incomplete and invalid information.
 
Uh uh, that is wrong on several counts. Cummins doesn't warranty the engine in our trucks, FCA does. FCA has been VERY clear about warranty work on fuel systems and the engine, in particular as it applies to fuel quality. Any statement about what fuel is allowed is accompanied by a minimum fuel spec ANY fuel used in a Cummins powered Ram MUST meet for warranty consideration. It is very clear, doesn't meet spec doesn't meet warranty. Both Cummins and Bosch have adopted said fuel spec and published required adherence for warranty consideration. That statement is totally misleading, based on clear direction from all 3 manufacturers

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Too bad we don't know what happens and is added to our ULSD. Straight out of fractional distillation, it doesn't meet spec. Just like you need additives in your diesel motor oil which Doesn't meet spec straight out of the fractional distillery.

If you get some that Doesn't have lubricity and detergent additives...... And if it got a little water or microbe in it, and Doesn't have an additive to minimize H2O (help filter isolate it) and/or (kill or prevent) microbes.... then you may be liable.

If you add an additive and it exceeds specs, more the better.
 
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Spoon, you now see how complicated all of this gets with just a little bit of scratching, LOL. To avoid some of the issues, most of us just add a squirt of snake oil and hope we're addressing a problem that may or may not exist.

When you have an opportunity, fill out your signature. Depending on the year and your location, a whole different list of variables will likely present itself.

- Ed
 
Cerb, Myself and many other members are Not skill Keystroke kings, or do we care about the worlds dialogue and clear understanding , that's tantamount to fake smooth words. You don't call the fire dept to bake a cake, Call the fire dept when the cake catches on fire. Heeeheeee
 
Not to mention pump fuel may, or may not meet spec, with or without anybody's additive.

There are additives that improve lubricity.
They WILL lubricate injectors and pumps and reduce friction. Question is, if you let your truck sit a while, will your chosen additive cause additional gumming? We know that typical diesel forms gum. And additives may also.



most of us just add a squirt of snake oil and hope we're addressing a problem that may or may not exist.- Ed

We are all working with a dearth of information. Yet, we are still the most informed from our conversation..... no matter which side of the "additive " debate you are on.

Dealers have chastised owners for not using additives. And techs have advised against their use
 
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Too bad we don't know what happens and is added to our ULSD. Straight out of fractional distillation, it doesn't meet spec.

Based what we can normally get that is on point. Unless one is willing to test every tank to know for sure we end up using published information from the refineries and published spot checks for a guess. The suppliers admit it doesn't meet spec from the refinery so additives are used to supposedly meet spec but spot tests from agencies tasked with that show it is hit or miss.


To avoid some of the issues, most of us just add a squirt of snake oil and hope we're addressing a problem that may or may not exist.


All we can do, best guess to address an issue that is hard to quantify but by all logic does in fact exist.


Not even worth the time, edited and deleted...
I have noticed more and more this is a typical response when presented with any type of logic refuting unsubstantiated claims.

What does "Not even worth the time" mean anyway? Does that mean defending a position is not worth the time? Making a logical case is not worth the time? Being part of a discussion is not worth the time? Why post or respond at all if it is not worth the time? Even more so, what does that say for others that are trying to have a discussion, they are not worth the time? Bit of a conundrum there, it must be worth the time to respond declaring it is not worth the time. :confused: After careful consideration I conclude it is 5 O'clock somewhere and IS worth the time to enjoy. :-laf
 
I have noticed more and more this is a typical response when presented with any type of logic refuting unsubstantiated claims.

What does "Not even worth the time" mean anyway? Does that mean defending a position is not worth the time? Making a logical case is not worth the time? Being part of a discussion is not worth the time? Why post or respond at all if it is not worth the time? Even more so, what does that say for others that are trying to have a discussion, they are not worth the time? Bit of a conundrum there, it must be worth the time to respond declaring it is not worth the time. :confused: After careful consideration I conclude it is 5 O'clock somewhere and IS worth the time to enjoy. :-laf


What it means is that I initially responded to your condescending reply, then decided I wanted to keep my head above the fray and not comment. You are entitled to your opinion and entitled to spend your money how you see fit. I work for a large metropolitan county that has a large fleet of vehicles, mostly gas but several hundred diesel trucks and close to a thousand commuter buses in my county alone. Further, all of our buses are diesels as well.

I know for a fact that we use diesel straight from the tanker truck with no additional additives. Buses run for years and hundreds of thousands of miles on regular old fuel.

You chose to believe their is a problem and that additives are the solution, that's fine. You chose to believe that evidence supports your claim (but I'm not worth your time providing that evidence, as you have so politely pointed out). I chose to believe that millions of miles driven annually, in trucks that are 10-15 years old, are sufficient evidence for me to believe that regular old ULSD is sufficient enough for my truck. If there was a problem with the fuel or a legitimate benefit to additives, I'm sure that we would use them.

My wife's aunt is the supervisor of the school bus depot in an adjoining county. I know for a fact that they don't use any additional additives either. Now I'm likely in the 10's of millions of miles driven annually with no additives and no problems.

I have to wonder how many large fleets in the US use additives in their OTR trucks. My father used to drive for a regional trucking company and has friends that still do, they don't use additives.

Some people chose to use additives, some don't. I have yet to see one piece of evidence that using an additive has prevented a problem. Cummins only recently partnered with Power Service to endorse (not recommend...) their product. In 2016 Cummins didn't recommend any additive. In 2015 Cummins didn't recommend any additive. I can go on and on about that. Then, in mid 2017 Cummins suddenly endorses Power Service. What changed suddenly from 2016 to mid 2017? Did I miss the national headline about all the trucks getting poor quality fuel and grenading? Did I miss the national headline about a sudden change in ULSD composition? I don't think I did. A quick Google search doesn't reveal anything obvious.

So, nothing changed about the Cummins engine and nothing changed about the ULSD supply in the US. Cummins simply "endorsed" Power Service, but made no recommendations for use. Nothing changed in warranty status from Ram (my apologies for initially stating that Cummins backed the warranty). Nothing changed. Why should I believe that despite my manual stating the following " In addition, commercially available fuel additives are not
necessary for the proper operation of your Cummins®
diesel engine
" that now I suddenly need to use a commercially available fuel additive? Like I said in my initial post... I haven't seen anything that demonstrates a NEED for an additive. I asked you to please help educate me why I need one. You chose to give me a condescending reply, rather than any facts.

Because of all that, I initially gave a childish reply to you and posted it. Then I immediately felt regret and decided that my immature response wasn't helpful to the thread. Because I wasn't able to delete my post, I edited it to what you quoted and complained about.
 
To each their own about additives. We only use additives on our 25 year old diesel tractor because it wasn't designed to work on ULSD.


I have 7 diesel powered rigs that are all old and built before ULSD. They all have original injector pumps and injectors, except the '01, I added RV injectors in '03. Whatever the stations sell that's all they get, seems to work for me.

Opps, I forgot the 50hp Bully Dog injectors in the '91, about 2001.

Nick
 
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The underlying difference between spoons experiences and those of the consumer level have largely gone unspoken here. Filtration. Look at any vocational, OTR, construction, marine and upper level Ag equipment, the difference in filtration is astounding. One is designed to run many years and thousands of hours at high duty cycles, the other is designed to get through the warranty period. The 13+ is much improved but sub par in the grand scheme. My experiences mirror spoons in that I see alot of heavy equipment north of 10k hours that have never had a drop of any additives run through them. Yet they've got real f/w seperators and finals. Money would be better spent polishing the fuel before it goes into the tank, either aux tanks or a stationary at home with water blocking filter and something capable of 10 mic or smaller.
 
Well, we've all beaten each other up plenty over this. I for one don't intend to carry on any further. I've gotten too much help and good advice from folks here to cause hard feelings over fuel quality I can't control. While on that subject I will ad this; a neighbor of mine is a high end plumbing contractor. As such he deals with European boiler manufacturers due to their higher efficiency. He told me when he upgraded his system, he could have gotten an even more efficient boiler but U.S. fuel wasn't refined well enough to meet European standards. Therefore he had to settle for the U.S. version which used more fuel for the same BTUs. Anecdotal I know, but it is informative.
 
Am I the only one that's baffled at the endorsement of Power Service when Fleetguard has been making their own conditioner/antigel for eons now?
It seems counterintuitive to say the least.
 
Am I the only one that's baffled at the endorsement of Power Service when Fleetguard has been making their own conditioner/antigel for eons now?
It seems counterintuitive to say the least.

I noticed this also. And that's why I Don't buy the baloney sandwich idea that PS paid for the endorsement. I saw the fleetguard on Amazon when looking at what they had.
 
I noticed this also. And that's why I Don't buy the baloney sandwich idea that PS paid for the endorsement. I saw the fleetguard on Amazon when looking at what they had.

If the benefit of using additives is to be believed, I would not discount Fleetguards ability to produce a competent product. The in house resources they have put them at an advantage over many competitors.
 
We are excited to announce that leading global engine manufacturer Cummins Inc now officially endorses and recommends Power Service Diesel Kleen +Cetane Boost and Diesel Fuel Supplement +Cetane Boost for use in diesel engines!

Ford must recommend this product also. It's been on their shelves in their parts department for years. I always used it in my '09 F250 when going on long trips because I thought that was the best time to "clean out the gunk". This has been a nice thread to learn more about these other products. I say keep the separator drained, & change filters at correct intervals.
 
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