Hey, I need everyones help in the battle for the cummins. March of 99 I purchased Dodge 2500 with V8. OK, I know I should have gotten the cummins,but cash flow was low at the time. Last time I brought the topic of a new truck with cummins motor wife went through the roof. Now here is where I draw on the mind of deisel owners of the roundtable. I need every excuse all yous out there can come up with to use in the battle for the new truck. I will use all comments and keep everyone posted as to my progress. Give it your all guys.
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cummins needed
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Expected life of truck. No problem to go 400K. Wear out three gassers so just multiply the price of a gasser by three and see what you get. The Cummins is actually cheaper in the long run.
Ecomomy of operation. MPG vs price of fuel. Over 20MPG with the cheapest fuel.
Resale value. Check ads for used trucks. Resale value alone almost pays for the Cummins.
Coolest truck ride on the road.
#ad
#ad
#ad
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Joe George
Eureka, CA
'95 2500 CC auto 4X4,Combo EGT/boost guage,custom switch panel,PacBrake,TST #5,BD valve body,Automatic motorhome steps on both sides,Foldacover hard bed cover,Cummins chrome kit,Black steel grill guard,Front hitch receiver
[This message has been edited by Joe G. (edited 07-17-2000). ]
Ecomomy of operation. MPG vs price of fuel. Over 20MPG with the cheapest fuel.
Resale value. Check ads for used trucks. Resale value alone almost pays for the Cummins.
Coolest truck ride on the road.
#ad#ad#ad------------------
Joe George
Eureka, CA
'95 2500 CC auto 4X4,Combo EGT/boost guage,custom switch panel,PacBrake,TST #5,BD valve body,Automatic motorhome steps on both sides,Foldacover hard bed cover,Cummins chrome kit,Black steel grill guard,Front hitch receiver
[This message has been edited by Joe G. (edited 07-17-2000). ]
Diesel is a lot safer, harder to ignite when some one decides to use you as a stopping device. In this case the heaver diesel engine will serve as a battering ram. It loves to work. The main advantage is YOU WILL BE EXTREAMLY SATISFIED and will not need a replacement for many years. #ad
:
#ad:
Some comments on Joe G's response.
1. The engine will last 3 times longer - the rest of the truck is essentially the same between gas & diesel.
2. It takes a lotta miles to recover the $4500 option for the Cummins. In Los Angeles diesel can be cheaper than regular unleaded or more expensive than premium I think it depends upon how the planets are aligned.
Joe's right on the money w/resale & it is coolest truck on the road.
Brian
[This message has been edited by Brian Meadows (edited 07-18-2000). ]
1. The engine will last 3 times longer - the rest of the truck is essentially the same between gas & diesel.
2. It takes a lotta miles to recover the $4500 option for the Cummins. In Los Angeles diesel can be cheaper than regular unleaded or more expensive than premium I think it depends upon how the planets are aligned.
Joe's right on the money w/resale & it is coolest truck on the road.
Brian
[This message has been edited by Brian Meadows (edited 07-18-2000). ]
sell drugs for cummins money #ad
#ad
just kidding If I had a gasser I'd trade down a few years to get the cummins, I'd rather have an old 12valver than a gasser, or I'd look at buying the cheapest newer cummins, get invoice pricing from Dave Smith motors or somebody, or tell her your gasser will be dead at 100,000 miles and you could buy a cummins truck and drive it till your 90 years old pull up the thread about the guy who has 1. 2 million miles and say "see honey, I could buy one truck and it last 4ever instead of buying 4 or 5 gasser trucks to last the same amount of time, also after the cummins truck is paid for, we can save that 500 a month payment and buy nice things for us"
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BLACK BEAST: 2K1 QC, SWB, Auto, 4X4, 4. 10 LSD, SLT, Black, Camel leather, Tow pckg, nv241HD, cab lights, 2 inch daystar coil spacers, 35 inch Mickey thompson claws, bushwacker flares, rhino lined bed and rocker panels.
soon to come; DD stage 1's, boost module, possibly van aaken.
GREEN MACHINE: 93 Jeep Wrangler 4. 0L, T-18, 38X11 Boggers, Dana 44's, AtlasII T-case, ARB's, warn and moser shafts, Ramsey 5K winch... . NEEDS A DIESEL!!!!!!
#ad#adjust kidding If I had a gasser I'd trade down a few years to get the cummins, I'd rather have an old 12valver than a gasser, or I'd look at buying the cheapest newer cummins, get invoice pricing from Dave Smith motors or somebody, or tell her your gasser will be dead at 100,000 miles and you could buy a cummins truck and drive it till your 90 years old pull up the thread about the guy who has 1. 2 million miles and say "see honey, I could buy one truck and it last 4ever instead of buying 4 or 5 gasser trucks to last the same amount of time, also after the cummins truck is paid for, we can save that 500 a month payment and buy nice things for us"
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BLACK BEAST: 2K1 QC, SWB, Auto, 4X4, 4. 10 LSD, SLT, Black, Camel leather, Tow pckg, nv241HD, cab lights, 2 inch daystar coil spacers, 35 inch Mickey thompson claws, bushwacker flares, rhino lined bed and rocker panels.
soon to come; DD stage 1's, boost module, possibly van aaken.
GREEN MACHINE: 93 Jeep Wrangler 4. 0L, T-18, 38X11 Boggers, Dana 44's, AtlasII T-case, ARB's, warn and moser shafts, Ramsey 5K winch... . NEEDS A DIESEL!!!!!!
Tell her one guy saved over $500 on fuel the very first month he owned one. I did!
(Probably better if you don't mention I drove over 7000 miles that month. )
Seriously, just get out your calculator (or use a spreadsheet) and do some math, based on how many miles you drive per month, your current payment, etc. You will probably find that the Cummins is going to cost you a little more per month, but not as much more as you think. I was spending ~$2600 per year maintaining an old gasser that got 13. 5 mpg empty, <10 mpg towing, and racking up 40,000 miles per year. For me, depending on what I assumed for gas & diesel prices, it looked like the Cummins was going to cost between $50 and $200 per month, but that included considering NO CAR PAYMENT for the existing vehicle vs a big one for the new beast. My wife and I decided together that even $200 was worth the joy of not having to drop the vehicle off at the shop 1 to 2 times per month, which had become routine as one thing after another went wrong (and only 230,000 on that Chevy!).
If you already have a car payment, your numbers may look even better. She'll point out that this extends your payments out 2 to 3 more years; that's when you note that the current vehicle will be near worthless at the end of it's loan payout while the Dodge w/Cummins should be still going strong, with strong resale if desired. No tricks on the math - if the Cummins costs a little more, admit that, and then decide if it is worth that much to both of you. Good Luck, and happy calculating!
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2001 ETH, QC, LWB, 4WD, 3. 54, SPA Pyro & Boost, Leer Cab-high shell, ARB's soon
(Probably better if you don't mention I drove over 7000 miles that month. )
Seriously, just get out your calculator (or use a spreadsheet) and do some math, based on how many miles you drive per month, your current payment, etc. You will probably find that the Cummins is going to cost you a little more per month, but not as much more as you think. I was spending ~$2600 per year maintaining an old gasser that got 13. 5 mpg empty, <10 mpg towing, and racking up 40,000 miles per year. For me, depending on what I assumed for gas & diesel prices, it looked like the Cummins was going to cost between $50 and $200 per month, but that included considering NO CAR PAYMENT for the existing vehicle vs a big one for the new beast. My wife and I decided together that even $200 was worth the joy of not having to drop the vehicle off at the shop 1 to 2 times per month, which had become routine as one thing after another went wrong (and only 230,000 on that Chevy!).
If you already have a car payment, your numbers may look even better. She'll point out that this extends your payments out 2 to 3 more years; that's when you note that the current vehicle will be near worthless at the end of it's loan payout while the Dodge w/Cummins should be still going strong, with strong resale if desired. No tricks on the math - if the Cummins costs a little more, admit that, and then decide if it is worth that much to both of you. Good Luck, and happy calculating!
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2001 ETH, QC, LWB, 4WD, 3. 54, SPA Pyro & Boost, Leer Cab-high shell, ARB's soon
Brian,
You're right about the life of the truck vs life of the engine. However, if you are like me the life of the truck is extended because you like it so well. I detail my '95 every year so it still looks and drives like it's new. Everything still works right because I fix anything that goes haywire as soon as possible. I don't think I would have near as much pride of ownership for a gasser with the engine wearing out.
Also right about recovering the cost with fuel. Cheap operation is just an extra added attraction. Most places (CA metropolitan areas excepted) diesel costs less than the cheapest gas. I've never been able to figure out pricing for diesel in CA. I live in Eureka where diesel is now selling for about 30 cents less than the cheapest gas. We were in Sacramento a few days ago and diesel was a few cents more than the cheapest gas. I've seen the price in the San Francisco bay area more than the most expensive gas. I've never been able to figure that out. Anyway, the truck is as cheap to operate as my wife's new Chrysler LHS. The truck gets 20MPG vs the LHS 26MPG. Factor in the cost of fuel the operation cost per mile is about the same. Compare this to a gasser truck with the same amount of power and the comparison gets rediculous.
If you consider everything the Cummins is cheaper in the long run. If you decide to sell it, the difference in the resale value will recover the cost of the engine. How can you loose??
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Joe George
Eureka, CA
'95 2500 CC auto 4X4,Combo EGT/boost guage,custom switch panel,PacBrake,TST #5,BD valve body,Automatic motorhome steps on both sides,Foldacover hard bed cover,Cummins chrome kit,Black steel grill guard,Front hitch receiver
You're right about the life of the truck vs life of the engine. However, if you are like me the life of the truck is extended because you like it so well. I detail my '95 every year so it still looks and drives like it's new. Everything still works right because I fix anything that goes haywire as soon as possible. I don't think I would have near as much pride of ownership for a gasser with the engine wearing out.
Also right about recovering the cost with fuel. Cheap operation is just an extra added attraction. Most places (CA metropolitan areas excepted) diesel costs less than the cheapest gas. I've never been able to figure out pricing for diesel in CA. I live in Eureka where diesel is now selling for about 30 cents less than the cheapest gas. We were in Sacramento a few days ago and diesel was a few cents more than the cheapest gas. I've seen the price in the San Francisco bay area more than the most expensive gas. I've never been able to figure that out. Anyway, the truck is as cheap to operate as my wife's new Chrysler LHS. The truck gets 20MPG vs the LHS 26MPG. Factor in the cost of fuel the operation cost per mile is about the same. Compare this to a gasser truck with the same amount of power and the comparison gets rediculous.
If you consider everything the Cummins is cheaper in the long run. If you decide to sell it, the difference in the resale value will recover the cost of the engine. How can you loose??
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Joe George
Eureka, CA
'95 2500 CC auto 4X4,Combo EGT/boost guage,custom switch panel,PacBrake,TST #5,BD valve body,Automatic motorhome steps on both sides,Foldacover hard bed cover,Cummins chrome kit,Black steel grill guard,Front hitch receiver
On the first Diesel, I call it "cost of admission". The first one really bites in terms of the diesel option ($); after that it's even steven if you're trading diesel to diesel.
If you like to travel, having greater range (more mpg) is great. Also cheaper to take vacation. My first year with a diesel I went to Northern Minn, Glacier NP, Yellowstone NP, and Rocky Mountains NP all on the same $$ in fuel it would have cost me to go to one of those destinations with my gasser. That POS Chevy 454 was getting something like 3 mpg pulling a trailer -- if I wanted to go faster then 50 mph. The payments can be budgeted; when it comes time to hit the road it's nice to do so on less $$.
Do you tow? You will NEVER have to wonder if the truck can "handle it"!
[This message has been edited by Mark Kitchell (edited 07-18-2000). ]
If you like to travel, having greater range (more mpg) is great. Also cheaper to take vacation. My first year with a diesel I went to Northern Minn, Glacier NP, Yellowstone NP, and Rocky Mountains NP all on the same $$ in fuel it would have cost me to go to one of those destinations with my gasser. That POS Chevy 454 was getting something like 3 mpg pulling a trailer -- if I wanted to go faster then 50 mph. The payments can be budgeted; when it comes time to hit the road it's nice to do so on less $$.
Do you tow? You will NEVER have to wonder if the truck can "handle it"!
[This message has been edited by Mark Kitchell (edited 07-18-2000). ]
Bryan,
I have to disagree that the rest of the truck is the same - the body and frame yes but not the drivetrain. Assuming a V8-2500hd there is a Dana 60 (9. 75" ring gear) versus the Dana 80 (11" ring gear!!!!!) in the rear; an NV4500 versus the NV4500HD (or NV5600 if the 6 speed) for the transmission; and I think the NV231HD versus NV241LD (or NV241HD as an option) for the t-case (I may be wrong on this one, can't find the data for sure). If you crawl under a V8 2500 and a Cummins 2500 you'll see that the driveline components are MUCH beefier. I've seen many Cummins TD's with over 400,000 miles on them - and many of them worked hard that entire time. I've never seen a gas 2500 with over 200,000. As long as you are willing to maintain your truck you should easily be able to recover the $4500, if you decide to resell early then you will recover most (if not all) of it in the increased resale value (as others have mentioned).
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-Steve St. Laurent - President of the Great Lakes TDR, Chapter Forums Moderator
'98 Quad Cab Long Bed (CMNSPWR), 4x4, ISB, 5sp, 4. 10 LSD, Prime-loc remote fuel filter, boost & pyro gauges, TST Powermax, muffler eliminator, 5" chrome tip, BD Exhaust Brake, Isspro turbo temp monitor, Permatech spray in liner, Grizzly stainless nerf bars, Stull SS grill & bumper inserts, Front Draw-Tite receiver, BFG 285/75R16 AT KO's
[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 07-18-2000). ]
Right on Ron Duncan! I believe the saying goes, " It's better to beg forgiveness later than to ask for permission now. "
I hated my old Ford gasser and got fixated on diesels. Ford dealers wouldn't talk to me because I was too "buried" in the Ford truck so I went to Dodge. Six "pencils" and 4 1/2 hours later I owned a Cummins-powered Ram. The decision to buy my Ram (w/ Cummins) ranks as one of my best decisions ever.
As another saying goes: "Just do it!".
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Born March 2000: 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 HD 4x4, LWB, Regular Cab ST, 24V Cummins, Auto, 4. 10 LSD, Camper Package, Trailer Package, Trailer Tow Mirrors, Silencer Ring Removed, De-Badged, Tinted Windows, Bug Deflector, Paint Detailed/Sealed, Ston-gard, Line-X OTR Bedliner, GE 9004HO Headlamps.
I hated my old Ford gasser and got fixated on diesels. Ford dealers wouldn't talk to me because I was too "buried" in the Ford truck so I went to Dodge. Six "pencils" and 4 1/2 hours later I owned a Cummins-powered Ram. The decision to buy my Ram (w/ Cummins) ranks as one of my best decisions ever.
As another saying goes: "Just do it!".
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Born March 2000: 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 HD 4x4, LWB, Regular Cab ST, 24V Cummins, Auto, 4. 10 LSD, Camper Package, Trailer Package, Trailer Tow Mirrors, Silencer Ring Removed, De-Badged, Tinted Windows, Bug Deflector, Paint Detailed/Sealed, Ston-gard, Line-X OTR Bedliner, GE 9004HO Headlamps.
I've only had mine for about a month now. I agree that this is probably the best investment I have made to date. As for the house I bought 11 years ago, it is only just becoming worth more than what I owe on it. I researched the ability of these trucks to hold their value and was very impressed.
Joe G... .
I think they toss a coin or something to come up with the pricing of diesel. I work about a half mile from a Shell station that carries diesel. One day last week their price was $1. 79. gal. Another Shell station about 2 miles from the first one had diesel for $1. 59/gal. Both are near a major freeway, the higher priced one is closer to an interchange but not by much. Oh well, I guess you just have to shop around.
Mike
Joe G... .
I think they toss a coin or something to come up with the pricing of diesel. I work about a half mile from a Shell station that carries diesel. One day last week their price was $1. 79. gal. Another Shell station about 2 miles from the first one had diesel for $1. 59/gal. Both are near a major freeway, the higher priced one is closer to an interchange but not by much. Oh well, I guess you just have to shop around.
Mike
Mike,
If you ever figure out the pricing logic(?) for diesel, please let me know. It's $1. 69 at a local Texaco(credit card, pay at the pump) here in Eureka. It was $2. 01 at a Texaco in Sacramento on Sunday. I don't think it gets cheaper on the truck coming up here while gas gets more expensive. In fact, it's cheaper at the Texaco than at a card lock station on the same street. The Flying J has it at $1. 70 cash. It's a few cents cheaper at the Unocal in the thriving metropolis of Willets than in Eureka. ????
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If you ever figure out the pricing logic(?) for diesel, please let me know. It's $1. 69 at a local Texaco(credit card, pay at the pump) here in Eureka. It was $2. 01 at a Texaco in Sacramento on Sunday. I don't think it gets cheaper on the truck coming up here while gas gets more expensive. In fact, it's cheaper at the Texaco than at a card lock station on the same street. The Flying J has it at $1. 70 cash. It's a few cents cheaper at the Unocal in the thriving metropolis of Willets than in Eureka. ????
#ad#ad#adCareful about telling your wife how long it lasts! I made that mistake and now when I talk about upgrading to the dually she brings that up every time. " I thought you wouldn't need another truck for 300,000 miles" she says smuggly. I love my 2500 but I'm stuck with it for a loooong time. No matter where we go we take the truck!
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Back Issues
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