Cummins reviewing B6.7 emissions certification process

[KCJackson1]

https://www.automotive-fleet.com/330805/cummins-reviews-certification-of-ram-diesel-engine
Not considered an investigation of wrongdoing, the review is being done to resolve inquiries from EPA and CARB about the process, and Cummins says they will accept recommendations for improvement if needed. FCA supports the review and has agreed to cooperate where necessary.

 

[Mike Ellis]

This won't end well.

Will 4th Genners see a mandatory reflash at a service visit in the near future?

 

[JR]

This won't end well.

Will 4th Genners see a mandatory reflash at a service visit in the near future?

Possibly, but it is just the new 19 engine platform, so there are a limited number on the road at this point.

 

[TFucili]

Unless the theoretical reflash means that it is no longer 1K ft/lbs. That would be a can-o-worms, for sure. I sure hope it doesn't come to that point. I am hoping it is just due to the fact that they received conditional approval during the government shutdown, and are now dotting Is and crossing Ts.

 

[DonFitzwater]

I got three different stories from the local sales department as to why the new 2019's were on the lot yet. They claimed fuel system delays by Bosch, delays because Cummins didn't like Alaska's fuel quality and the last was blaming chrysler by saying they weren't even producing the trucks yet....................emissions problems seems more likely the culprit here!

 

[Ozymandias]

I trust a 100% into Cummins that everything is fine.
They know their business.

Just the EPA and CARB are super-picky after the VW Fakes.


As a reminder - it is NO PROBLEM to get a Diesel to the newest Emission regulations, it just cost some more in Production and for the Owner.
There is No Need to cheat on this except for german car manufacturers.

 

[TCDiesel]

This will make for some good reading.

https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/2019-clean-air-act-vehicle-and-engine-enforcement-case-resolutions

 

[Ozymandias]

.....and there are still people out there deleting their brand new trucks right from the dealerships lot.

 

[Mike Ellis]

Wow they put the financial smack-down on those companies. Flowmaster got tapped for $270K for selling products to eliminate catalytic converters. Wonder if the government is able to get the warranty registration packets for all those exhaust systems and delete kits and start going after people.

 

[SnoKing]

Wow they put the financial smack-down on those companies. Flowmaster got tapped for $270K for selling products to eliminate catalytic converters. Wonder if the government is able to get the warranty registration packets for all those exhaust systems and delete kits and start going after people.

That it's why our son's wholesale exhaust company quit stocking delete pipes several years ago. He had the Suits walk into his customer's shops with cease and decise orders.

 

[TCDiesel]

My small little T&C Diesel Performance Business Just Had the EPA Audit My records.

We sell our Products Under Title 42 Sub 7541(2)7521.. I had to develop My own testing, get it approved by (Central Data exchange) and pay the $ to do it.

You Have Gross violators BMS (Bosch Motor Sports) and it sellers grossly violating the EPAs Rules and laws ( all of this selling is done) under Bosch NA umbrella.

If you check every Part we sell Has T&C Markings all Bosch labels and markings are remove and sold under our Title....No So with BMS sellers, they leave Bosh labels and Markings on every thing , Making it look like its legally sold for on Road use. BMS selling weather its direct purchase from BMS or re-purchased form sellers like Exergy or it re-sellers IMO violates EPAs rules and Laws.....BMS was ( Original ) setup to promote Bosch in the race world, it was not until BMS friendship with the Owners of Exergy and SS Diesel started to sell to the general public for Road use for $$$$$. Some Day the EPA goona serve BMS and it sellers Admin Subpoenas and I'm goona be LMBO. Maybe than Bosch world wide will get the sense of it.

 

[Wiredawg]

Friends,

I used to own a 2009 Ram 4500 4x4 Cab and Chassis that I fully deleted in 2009 and ran that way until 2016. Since I was towing rv around the country, I was concerned about running into EPA enforcement issues. I reinstalled everything and found it all worked pretty good together. And I was legal.

Last trip out coming home through Carlsbad NM, we stayed at a campground full of oilfield workers. New diesel trucks of all makes with their exhausts and emissions piled up by their RVs. One day, the EPA and states are going to realize the cash cow they have in fines for emissions violations. I won't be one of them.

I just sold my Smarty with Middle East software and EGR delete to someone who just deleted their truck. Good luck.

Cheers, Ron

 

[TFucili]

I trust a 100% into Cummins that everything is fine.
They know their business.

I am not so sure that I have that much faith in any company, anymore. Too many decisions are made for what looks good for the next quarterly report these days. I do hope you are 100% right, though.

 

[TCDiesel]

I see why some delete their trucks, Again some, 2013+ 6.7 use very little EGR and the system have proven to be reliable.

2007.5-12 I support deleting the system just a problem for owners, Same goes for the VM3.0. Make reliable OEM setups will dry up deleting BC no $$$ will be had and the risk for anyone is not worth it.

 

[2Evil4U]

Wow they put the financial smack-down on those companies. Flowmaster got tapped for $270K for selling products to eliminate catalytic converters. Wonder if the government is able to get the warranty registration packets for all those exhaust systems and delete kits and start going after people.

Magnaflow was banged for >$613k for a bunch of GM 6.6L delete stuff. Yowsa. That will probably stem the tide of major MFGs marketing that type of product but the only way the feds will be able to stop people modding their vehicles is if they start going after individuals like the RIAA did back during the MP3 pirating craze. I'm not sure the EPA is staffed for that, but nothing is out of the range of possibility for the feds.

Edit: The oddest part of all of those suits was that Flowmaster was hammered for selling headers for V8 cars manufactured from 75-88. That's some California level crap right there. Not too many states will care what you do to a vehicle that is 25 years old let alone 30-45. Wow.

 

[DonFitzwater]

Magnaflow was banged for >$613k for a bunch of GM 6.6L delete stuff. Yowsa. That will probably stem the tide of major MFGs marketing that type of product but the only way the feds will be able to stop people modding their vehicles is if they start going after individuals like the RIAA did back during the MP3 pirating craze. I'm not sure the EPA is staffed for that, but nothing is out of the range of possibility for the feds.

Edit: The oddest part of all of those suits was that Flowmaster was hammered for selling headers for V8 cars manufactured from 75-88. That's some California level crap right there. Not too many states will care what you do to a vehicle that is 25 years old let alone 30-45. Wow.

Trump has them (EPA) whittled down to bare staffing from what I understand but they are still a major problem........unfortunately they are only a symptom of the real problem with our country.

 

[TCDiesel]

Don.

Trump's Admin has cut funding to the EPA, The current members of the EPA are doing everything possible to earn their keep....

(If) the law requires enforcement they are obligated to enforce it....Its against the law to defeat or delete emission devices. So don't become the low hanging fruit.

That being said, if the EPA (Law) requires lifetime commitment to comply than the emissions equipment should have 10 year 120K miles 100$% warranty coverage.

The foremost reason owners delete is cost to maintain the devices, and the effect it has on the power plant durability.

Its not the effort that owners put forth to support the law, I myself fought for 3 years to Keep My VM3.0 Eco emissions compliant , after 3 years and 3 complete EGR and Plenum foam cleaning My EGR and plenum failed, Both were replace under warranty at No cost to Me. Being invested in FCA give Me power the Normal owner does not have ,and the cost to replace those parts R/R was close to $3,000.00US @ 41K miles.

I have Now change My position on the VM3.0 if you are going to keep the Truck in long term ownership I support deleting, The EGR, Plenum , Turbo are terribly inadequate and will cost $1000s in future repairs.

The EPA failed ECO owners in the Settlement $3,000.00 and the 48/48 -10/120 service contract is laughable.. that AEM is going to make the 3.0VM more problematic. Ask 2017-18 owners!

 

[TCDiesel]

The EPA also receiving $100s of millions in the Settlement, WOW the EPA now infused with $$$$$$$ in life support to keep breathing, SO who's best interest does the EPA put first?

 

[Wiredawg]

TCDIESEL and all,
We bought my wife a new 2019 Ram 1500 Laramie Longhorn 4x5 5.7L 4x4 last year. I studied hard the 3.0L diesel and decided against it. The dealer had bunches on the lot and one could be had really cheap. Dealer actually pushing them. From what I read here on the TDR, I also determined the only way to own one is to delete it. My deleting days are over. So, I decided for a gasser. Couldn't be happier.

I had even originally decided if Jeep ever offered the 3.0L diesel in a Wrangler, I'd jump on it. But now, given the 3.0L issues, and again, out of the deleting business, I'll keep my 2014 Wrangler with the 3.6L gasser. Although doubtful, if FCA ever put a Cummins in the Wrangler, I'd probably pull the trigger.

I am, however, confident in the durability of the emissions on my 2017 Ram 5500. Hope I'm not putting a lightning rod in it talking so boldly. I'm actually pretty impressed with the power and capability it has given the emissions.

Interesting info. This thread answers a lot of questions I used to have about how aftermarket vendors could sell delete kits advertised for offroad only, but obviously targeting on road customers, like me. Also Interesting, I may have been one of the last Smarty owners left who had the Middle East software that allowed Smarty tuner to delete emissions. Their help desk wouldn't answer any questions or offer any help related to ME. They do not support deleting, period.

Thanks for the education. This and the TDR magazine article about SEMA and EPA is enlightening.

Cheers, Ron

 

[TCDiesel]

Wiredawg and readers
I wanted the 3.0VM to be successful, FCA could have overcome the Market.. We are Talking 5 years head start on the Competition is unheard of in this market.

IMO....FCA leadership is shocking to say the leased in Corp management, FCA development and research was quashed by the leadership demands to continue production when the dark cloud of QC and EPA regs encircled VM at Cento Italy, real stupidly on FCA part.