Custom ladder bars installed!

[WOWZY]

Steve St. Laurent,

They look great! Better than the ones that I've seen that hang down.

By the way yours are mounted, (99% of our axle wrap is gonna be in forward motion and the axle wraps backward with 1% of the time we're in reverse which makes the axle wrap forward. ) most of the wrap will be pulling on the bars instead of pushing on them. Which means you don't have to buy those expensive Lakewood type ladder bars to stop axle wrap. Those Lakewood type bars are usually mounted wrong, meaning that they're mounted on the bottom of the axle and push on the bars 99% of the time. That's why they have to be made with cross-bars to give them strength and look terrible hanging down so far.

I used this type of setup on my '84 Blazer when I installed the 2. 5ton military axles. They have a 6. 72 ratio, so you can imagine how severe my axle wrap was. I had the Lakewoods which were mounted at the bottom of the axle and the first hole-shot bent the doodoo out of them. The original military mounts which I had removed earlier went back on because they connected the bars at the top of the axle. Good 'ole simple physics prevails every time. I havent had any trouble with this set up.

Great pics Steve.
<font color=blue>

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'99 2500HD Quad Cab 4x4, Intense Blue Pearlcoat, Fully loaded w/Agate leather interior, 5-speed, 4. 10 Limited Slip, Skyjacker Leveling kit, Heckethorn Nitro 9000 shocks w/dual End to End steering stabilizers, 35x12. 50x16. 5 BFG/AT KO's on 9. 75x16. 5 Eagle 589 Aluminum Wheels, 9004 Cool Blue's, Silencer Ring removed, Fog Lights relay pulled, No muffler, No resonator, 4" straight pipe, Northwest Customs Stainless Steel Rocker Panels, Steel Horse Stainless Steel Nerf Bars, K&N Filter,Custom POWEREDGE W/HOT Programs 60/80/100+HP, Grover Air Horns, Autometer Ultra-Lite Gauges.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Steve the main problem with attaching the bars underneath the axle is interference with the sway bar on the rear. If you don't have the sway bar then it's no problem to mount underneath. John West mounted his underneath the axle and removed his sway bar so it would work. I wanted to keep mine if at all possible and they fit on the top, plus the angles lined all up correctly to keep the bars hidden. You do have to trim the plastic fenderliner for clearance.

Wowzy - thanks for that info on top versus bottom mounting. Looks like I lucked into that!

Little Bill, I was already planning on driveshaft loops but hadn't thought of safety straps on the ladder bars. These bars are stronger than the front suspension control arms. The front mount it turns out is from an F350 spring perch. The heim joints are 3/4" moly joints and the bars are I think he said 4130 or 4170 moly (?). He runs these bars on some parts of his monster truck. Do you think straps are necessary?

-Steve


[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 02-03-2001). ]

 

[Little Bill]

Steve,

You've got good components but it all comes down to the 1 bolt connecting the eheim to the frame bracket. It's gonna' see lots of shear and abrasion over time. Straps for these things don't need to be bullet proof. A nylon tie wrap is more than strong enough to catch the bar.

For the thread, positioning of the axle mounts is much more critical when the axle and the spring are separated by a 1/4" mounting plate. Our 4x4 trucks have 5 1/2 inches of stuff between the spring and the axle and that's a long lever. We really just want to stop the axle from swinging under the springs, and that will stop the spring wrap.

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2001 QC SLT SWB ETH 6SP JRE Spa Fabritech Practical Solutions

 

[David_VT]

Little Bill,
The safety strap idea is a great idea. While my truck does not look like some kind of baja runner, I do tend to be pretty hard on it. It would be a real bummer to flip the truck because I broke one bolt and caught the front edge of my fabritechs.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Just a quick update - they are still working great. I've taken quite a few people for rides in the truck (other CTD owners) and they are all impressed with how much tighter the whole truck feels! I'm pretty sure I've found a shop that's willing to handle selling them but I still have a few details to work out (like installation instructions for one). I'll let you guys know as soon as they are available.

-Steve


[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 02-23-2001). ]

 

[Morphious]

I would definatly be interested in the bars, ever driven down the cimarron turnpike in Oklahoma? The trip down it reminds me of the old vibrating belts they used to advertise. Plus I see alot of off road feeding my herd of animals, shortcuts and hauling hay. My pasture finally dried up yesterday and now it has already rained probably 3 inches this morning, so it is back to the 8" deep ruts to feed again.

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99 2500 4x4 QC Std transmission, Puple, 10 Disc Sony Changer, 285x75Rx16 BFG Mudders, Gooseneck hitch, 275lb King Klaw front bumper, Towing/Camper setup.

1965 Chevy 1/2 ton Pickup, 350-350hp/2spd powerglide, PS, PB, Disc Brakes on the front, Tilt, Fuel Cell, 3. 73 posi.

26ft Gooseneck Flatbed Trailer.

1960 Farmal 340 Diesel Tractor

 

[NVR FNSH]

A little more info on top vs bottom mounting - WOWZY, good explanation BTW.

If the bars are mounted below the axle center line then as the pinion 'climbs' the bar will be in compression. If the bar is mounted above the center line then the bar will be in tension. A round tube is much, much stronger in tension than in compression - compression leads to buckling failures. The Fabritech bars with the 'beam' (higher section modulus - greater buckling strength) construction is designed for a below axle mount even though they are mounted at the centerline. IMO, Fabritech went after the 'look' as opposed to the function with their design.

Brian

 

[Sled Puller]

I am still concerned with the welding part. Hard to get in there and get a good bead.

Could the welders out there tell us their thoughts/concerns with doing this on the axle housing?
Thanks,
Gene

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I need some help from you guys getting measurements off of your trucks so I can see what needs to be done for other model trucks. Please see this thread - https://www.turbodieselregister.com/ubb//Forum17/HTML/001623.html . Thanks in advance.

-Steve

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Gene - you definately need a top notch welder to do the work that's welded on axles before. The welding part is definately not a do it yourself job for the at home welder. I've tried to think of any other way to mount them to the axle but can't think of any other way that would work and hold.

-Steve

 

[Cooker]

Steve,
Where is this shop located? I know you are not too far from me so if the gentleman you installed your's is interested in another... ?

I was originally going to install Skyjacker rear springs (about $350-$400) to eliminate the block and axle wrap, but these may be a better way to go with some additional benefits, for not alot of extra $$$.

Ryan

 

[Jeff H]

Must have. Throw an e-mail. If you wan't just send me parts I can weld and assemble my self. Instructions would be nice too. This guy should take this oppritunity to sell us these bars. Looks like theres a growing list.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

I'm working on the details - they should be available for purchase within the month. Getting the measurements I need mentioned above will help tremendously!

[This message has been edited by Steve St. Laurent (edited 02-25-2001). ]

 

[Extreme1]

As far as welding goes... Yes, you will need a skilled welder. Although there is a safety aspect here, it isn't high pressure pipe so it isn't too big a deal.

Definitly need to have the parts sano clean (rust, rust proof & paint removed).

MIG (GMAW or wire feed) would be prefered to minimize heat (verses TIG or GTAW) and get a large enough cross section to hold the loads applied. I would steer clear of stick welding them on as it is more dificult to get the desired result and most production welding (and weldors) are wire feed.

Steve-make sure the weld on brackets are mild steel and not chrome moly. This would create a brittle area adjacent to the weld and it would fail there.

As far as the actual welding goes... (Here is where I pi$$ of some folks?) You will need to get a skilled fabricator to get it right and do a good job. Ask around for friends or friends of friends who are welders, have been to skool (technical) for welding and preferably have been doing it for a while. Some of the worst weld jobs I have seen have been done by dealerships and auto body repair shops. (I not talking about sheet repairs, I mean big welds).

That being said, I doesn't look to tough to physically get into to weld. I, too am interested if the price is right, otherwise I'll make a set.

Regarding geometry, restricting the fore/aft movement of the axle in respect to the frame isn't necessarily desirable. As the spring flexes, it flattens out and the rear eye moves rearward. The axle needs to move approximately 1/2 that distance (depending on where it is on the spring) in order to keep from binding. When a rigid link is introduced as it is here, the attachment point needs to be a goodly distance from the axle centerline as it is here. In order for the suspension to cycle, the axle actually has to rotate the opposite direction that it is trying to due to torque. A well thought out solution by the manufacturer!

The Fabritech (?) bars with the attachment in front of the axle are compromised by this attachment. But they do look cool!

Sorry about the long post, just trying to shed some light on the weld question. #ad




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'94 3500 4x4, 209,000 miles, Never had a cat, Auto w/shift kit (thanks Dave G), 3. 54 Gears, TST #5 plate, 235-85-16s, Rancho 9000s w/remote, Isspro gauges inplace of cupholder & Amsoil Air Oil & Bypass Filters & Lubes, AWOL intake boot (put the silencer ring after I pulled the boot-too loud!?!). NRA member. Blue Ribbon Coalition member.
"Warrantee? We don't need no stinking warrantee!"

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Thanks for that info Extreme - the mounts at the axle are mild steel.

I still need the measurements in the other post for 2wd trucks so I can be sure they will work on them.

The short bed trucks are going to need a totally different length bar and a different mount at the front of the bed (it's MUCH tighter on the short-bed trucks). I need to find someone that's willing to spend a day or two here in the Lansing, MI area (right in the middle of the lower peninsula) so that we can fit up a set to your truck. Whoever can do this for me will get their set of bars ad a discounted rate. Please email me at stevest@voyager.net if you are interested.

-Steve

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks guys! I have all the measurements I need now. Now I just need to get a short bed truck into town so we can do an install and fit them up. It looks like it could take up to 3-4 days potentially because once we fit the truck we need to order in the length bars needed and that will take a minimum of 2 days. I have a volunteer from Oklahoma, but that's a long way to drive to sit around for 3 or 4 days. If I can get someone local we can fit them the first day, then get the bars in and then finish on another day. Let me know if anyone's interested - you'll get a discount.

-Steve

 

[Amianthus]

I'm interested, but my scheduling will be a problem for a while. A couple of weeks anyway. I may be able to do it the second or third week in March. If anyone else is gonna do it, be my guest.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

We're getting closer guys - the first set of prototype production bars goes out on the big brown truck tomorrow. They are going to the shop that will be hopefully be selling them. Once they try them out and are happy with them (I'm sure they will be) they'll be ready to take orders (may take a few weeks to fulfill the orders, we have to order in lots of 10). They will only be available for long bed trucks at first I've contacted a couple of short bed owners that volunteered to come up here for the first shortbed install - once that is done then we'll have them for short bed trucks too. Here's some pictures of the first production set:

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-Steve

 

[Extreme1]

Looks nice Steve!-Good work! #ad

I see Aron is trying to get his hands on a set-no suprise there. He already has everything else on it. #ad
(You'll see what I mean if you put them on his. )
Any idea on how many bananas yet?
Also, what are the bars themselves made out of? What is the coating?
Thanks!

 

[JR2]

Back to the top... . any ideal approximately how much $$$?

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John D. Rathert Jr.
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01 2500 Forrest Green Sport SLT+ QC LWB 4x4 Auto 3. 54 rear end with all options avail. DC Nerf Bars, DC Grill Guard, DC mud flaps, Line-X bed liner, Leer 160XL Topper, Power Edge, EZ Edge, SPA Boost/EGT Gauge on pillar mount, DDT's tc/vb combo, 275 RV injectors, DD 4" Exhaust and a KN RE0880 where the air box use to be. New turbo (HX40), SS fuel lines and bigger injectors in planning stages... . See My Truck, Dads truck: 98. 5 3500 SLT QC LWB 4x4, Brother Truck: 92 W250 SLT CC LWB 4x4 (Dads old truck) Winter fun - 2000 Skidoo Summit 700
I am my own warranty station.
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