Damn engine knock (with sound clip)

[Briman]

I have the tick/knock as well. Someone along time ago posted that the bolts holding the injectors on 3rd gen trucks were not tightened correctly or could loosen up. They tightened theirs up and the noise went away. I have not yet done a search to find this thread. I need to pull the valve cover and check injector hold down bolt tightness (and do a valve adjustment while I’m at it). There may be more to it than tightness. The two bolts holding down the injector may have to be torqued evenly so the injector sets flat on the mounting surface. Similar to torquing a wheel, two or three stages may be required to get the injector to set flat. Just my hypothesis, but since Mathew Clausen simply switched his injectors it may have some validity

 

[gmcollier]

I have a 2001 6pd with antispin. Patriot blue with silver bottom and 65,000 miles. give me a call if it sounds good to you.



John 360-430-6757

 

[Kry226]

Swapped #6 with #3. NOISE IS GONE. Have another 2000 miles now and still smooth and quiet. What could have changed by just swapping the injectors? Is there maybe a seal issue, or something loose? Anyone else had this experience?

From the 2004 Service manual about fuel injector torque specs:



"The connector is retained in the cylinder head by a nut (fitting) that is threaded into the cylinder head. The torquing force of this threaded nut (fitting) provides a sealing pressure between the fuel line connector

and the fuel injector. Retaining nut torque is very critical. If the nut (fitting) is under torqued, the mating surfaces will not seal and a high-pressure fuel leak will result. If the fitting is over torqued, the connector and injector will deform and also cause a high-pressure fuel leak. This leak will be inside the cylinder head and will not be visible. The result will be a possible fuel injector miss-fire and low power, or a no-start condition. "



I really think this should be the first thing we think about and the first step to diagnosing a possibly bad injector. Re-torque them all. The mechanic should have known that. Now if I can only find the torque specs... :-laf

 

[nickleinonen]

Now if I can only find the torque specs...

from service manual...

Install fuel injector hold down clamp and hold

down bolts. Alternately tighten clamp bolts to 10 N·m

(89 in. lbs. ) torque.

 

[Cattletrkr]

I hate threads like this 'cause everytime I read one I think there's something wrong with my truck. I went from the loudest '01 I've ever heard to this nice quiet 04. 5 and now it's starting to get louder. I can't tell if it's "normal diesel noise" or if something's wrong. At about 30k it started getting louder and I always think I can hear something out of wack.



Like I said, my '01 was extremely loud. I could be standing next to a friends '00 and hear mine from 50ft away with both of them running. So... I can't tell if I'm just able to hear more with this one, or if something's up. I'm in the middle of getting the "launch shudder" taken care of, so I'm gonna wait until that's done to start buggin' the dealer about noises. I've got 65k worth of warranty left on the injectors so I'm in no hurry.



I listened to both sound clips and mine sounds closer to the first one than the second, but it's a sound clip...

 

[JohnnyH]

What is involved in removing the valve cover. Is the gasket reusable?

John

 

[ACerf]

I took mine to the dealer the I got the standard answer, "They all sound like that"! If I pull up next to Powerstroke or Duramax, I don't hear anything but those noisey V-8 want-a-be diesels!



Even with the a knocking, they will out last the Powerstroke or Duramax by at least 150K!!! Oo.

 

[Shooter]

I think I may have this same injector knock as several others that have posted recently. I have 20K miles on the truck and noticed the knock a couple weeks ago during a drive from Southern CA to Eden UT. When I idled up to the pump after being on the road for 5-6 hours, the truck sounded kinda sick. I have the same symptoms as others, I only hear the knocking when the transmission is in drive and engine idling. The noise subsides at around 1100-1200 rpms.



I made a recording of the knocking (click the URL below). The first 8 seconds are simply idling in neutral. The remaining time is with the transmission in drive with the brake applied.



http://mysite.verizon.net/res1h7d2/

"

That is the same knock I had in my 97 Power stroke. Have a similar knock in the 03, also grinds into 3rd when trans temp is less than 60*f. Other than the afromentioned it tows 21k great.

 

[ssanders60]

engine noise

Sounds just like my '03 h/o 4x4 2500.



Next week it'll have a different sound, depending on how

it's driven.



I'd like to know if you find anything wrong with it though.



Ssanders60

 

[JTeague]

Hey guys. I'd like to let you in on another possible problem that may be causing the "knock" that some of you describe. The best way I can desrible this noise is gear clash. I have had 2 trucks, 1 a 04. 5, and the other a 05 that developed a severe knock at idle that was coming from the front of the engine. Each only had 4000 mi. when the noise started. On both trucks I foung the noise to be coming from the injection pump/camshaft gear area. The way I found the problem was by actually running the engine with the front cover off of the engine. I could press against the injection pump gear with a wooden dowel rod to keep tension on the gear while the engine was running and the noise would dissapear. I first tried replacing just the pump gear on both trucks, but the noise stayed the same. I ended up replacing the camshaft and the pump gear to cure the noise. It seems that the bean counters have found a way to save a dime by cutting the width of the cam gear and injection pump gear in 1/2 and by going to a straight cut gear instead of being cut on an angle like previous engines had. When I called STAR, they said it was common. Just some food for thought.

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

What would be the possibility of "detuning" the 3Gs via ECM re-programming, getting rid of the pilot injections, and changing injectors.



In essence, retro the injection back to 2G without having the problematic VP44? I know they would be noisy - but the trade off could be worth it. The 03 and 04 would still be EPA compliant, and the 04. 5 + would have to grapple with the law (like the cat remover folks, tsk, tsk )

 

[Tony T.]

Bringing this thread back to life I have the low rpm knock under load, the loudest at 800-900 rpm and then fades away at just above a 1000 rpm. Last Friday I dropped it off at my dealership and they kept it all day, and half the day Saturday. Tech notes was "no abnormal sounds","performed injector kill test no problems found", and "checked for any TSB's related none found. " Service writer told me the tech did add some injector cleaner to the tank though. Of course I still have the knock, today I went by my mechanic friends shop, and he told me to ask them to have a DC service rep listen and check it out. I called the dealership and have a appointment next Friday to take it in and the service writer was going to have a diesel tech on hand to listen and for me to talk to. It does not knock when in "P" or "N" only under a load, no white smoke at start up,no codes thrown,and mileage still seems the same to me. I was curious to know if any of the others that had previously posted to the thread other than the two guys that got the injectors replaced got any lead way with their dealerships getting rid of the knock, or are they just trying to give me the brush-off treatment.



Just a side note,my wife and thirteen year son wants to know why my truck is knocking,so I know I'm not hearing things.



Tony

 

[Diesel Nut]

Well, my 03 will knock and ping like crazy at 900 rpms under a load when cold. My guess is timing. Cold, low rpms, high load, low boost, sounds to me like a perfect situation to have more fuel available than you can make enough heat to burn. It'll even do it warm. But, mine is a stick. Also, what are you doing to keep it at theat rpm? My buddies 05, you have to really feather it to keep it at 900. He touches the throttle and it goes to 1500 and the trq converter kicks in and she be gone. Cold, low load, his knocks just a bit at 900ish also. My 2 cents

 

[Tony T.]

Diesel Nut



I just crank it up put it in drive with one foot on the brake and other on go pedal (auto) litely to bring up the rpms, at 800-900 rpm it is hammering up to 1000 rpm, or a hair above the hammering fades away. When driving awhile I pull up to red light foot on brake I hear it slightly when slowing down under 1000 rpm then pulling away from light about 800 rpm knock,knock,knock and then fades away. Slowing down to make a right or left turn knock,knock,knock then fades away.



We have a 04 Ford PSD at work that I was curious to know if it would knock at idle or just above under load, I done the foot on the brake, foot on go pedal with it the sound was the same from idle up to 1000 rpm and I detected no knock, same for accelerating from red lights and making slow right or left turns no knocking I can detect.



This is what confuses me wondering if it is just a combustion knock possibly normal at the low rpm or a problem with a injector,timing, or what ever since reading about the others having bad injectors replaced. Some of the people thats listened to my truck say it does not sound normal and say sounds like a fuel system problem to them also. Truck runs great, no rough idle or anything.



Tony

 

[rbattelle]

Wow this is long!

Tony,



I had the same knock. It sounds like someone is under the hood hitting the engine block with a claw hammer. Sounds like the engine is going to come apart.



Like you, I took it to my dealer and had them listen. They actually admitted it had the knock, but they claimed it was "normal". "They all sound like that". "My buddy has an '03 and his does exactly the same thing".



This knock would come and go with a period of about 3 months. It would start gradually and get worse and worse until I thought any moment the pistons were going to come flying out of the block. Then mysteriously, literally overnight, it would disappear. 2 months later, it would be back again.



This happened continuously from about 5k miles to 30k miles. Then it disappeared and has not returned (47k now).



At the time, my truck was stock enough that I didn't worry. I figured that if it really did explode they'd simply give me a new engine. Now my engine has had significant modifications to the low pressure fuel system and I am convinced that if I go anywhere near a dealer they will take one look at my system and void my warranty (regardless of the time and effort I put into my design).



In my personal opinion, the knock is a "weak" injector. By "weak" I mean it's either sticking open or sticking closed. Problem is, most dealers don't have techs that are experienced enough with a "quiet" diesel to be qualified to say what's normal and what's abnormal.



So you must ask yourself: is your engine/vehicle modified enough to cause Dodge to void the warranty? You've been around here awhile and as I recall your truck is pretty close to stock. If the diesel tech you're going to see says "it's normal", then my sincere advice is to drive it and hope it grenades itself. Then they have to give you a new engine and you can say "see, I told you so".



Here's the real problem with the entire situation. The common rail injection system is sensitive to contaminants. Its components - from the CP-3 to the injector tips - are of very fine finish and materials and fit together with very tight tolerances. Since their invention it's been known that common rail injectors are particularly susceptible to fuel atomization and spray problems caused by wear at the needle and seat. We have a situation in this country where diesel fuel is not particularly "good". Cummins made the corporate decision to install 10-micron filters in the low pressure fuel system. I believe a large body of evidence (from Caterpillar and Duramax owners, among others) points to contaminants in the sub 10-micron range causing most of the damage to injector tips and injector pumps. There's always the option, then to install your own supplemental filtration system that filters down to smaller sizes.



Therein lies the problem: do you put your warranty in jeopardy by changing the stock low pressure fuel system to achieve better contaminant filtration, or do you hope contaminants smaller than 10 micron don't cause any damage so that you're not left "holding the bag" if accumulated damage finally results in an engine failure outside the 100k mile warranty? By administering the engine warranty themselves, Dodge has put every one of us between a rock and a hard place. Many Dodge dealers cannot be trusted to make proper fuel system diagnostics, and the warranty system is set up to deny coverage as often as possible. Make an effort to improve the system, lose warranty. Don't improve the system, and accumulated damage might come calling at 110k miles.



I debated this with myself for over 40k miles and 1. 5 years. I finally decided that I didn't want to leave the system stock just to get through the warranty period and end up "holding the bag" when an injector or pump went out at 120 k or 200k miles. Now, if my engine breaks, I assume I will be "on my own". But, as they say, "nothing ventured, nothing gained".



I'm not in any way advising you to swap out your low pressure fuel system. You should take some comfort knowing that I had the same issue as you and mine *appears* to have resolved itself. Guys like Coolslice were not so lucky (how many engines did he lose? 2?).



Please keep us posted!



-Ryan

 

[Tony T.]

Has anyone done a change up or testing of different fuel suppliers or stations. Another words since I have owned my truck I have only purchased diesel fuel from two locations with the exception of one time on a little weekend trip from the home area, but that was back with less than 5K miles on the clock,I now have 29K miles and noticing the knock. Now one station I go to about 95% of the time and the other is a truck stop about 23 miles away maybe 5% of the time if that much. Truck has always performed well at either place seems like.



I was curious to know if trying different fuel stations do affect the fact the knocking is increased,reduced,stayed the same,or what-ever. I also use a fuel additive.



Tony

 

[Neibe]

If you think that's loud you should hear my 12 valve.

 

[John - K5AWO]

What is Normal?

I also use a fuel additive.



Tony

Hi Tony,

My '98 24V always sounds like something is changing holes.

Went in to the ear doctor yesterday and vented my ear drums and suctioned out all the sinus junk. Wow! Now I know why some folks think a Cummins is LOUD!



I suggest you run Marvel Mystery Oil for a while as your fuel additive. I have been using it exclusively since my diesel mechanic put me on the trick. Works better than the expensive stuff, AND, my engine runs smoother and quieter than before I started using it.



John

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

I debated this with myself for over 40k miles and 1. 5 years. I finally decided that I didn't want to leave the system stock

Ryan, what system did you come up with to resolve this to your satisfaction? There were some threads awhile back on filters and filtering systems that seemed to all end up at a dead end. I understand Fleetguard, I think, was suppose to say something at May Madness about filters. Does anyone know if anything substantive came from this?



Pound for pound, my 04 555 has been the best CTD I've owned -- outside the ujoints and someday I reckon the ball joints -- all stuff I can handle. But the "is that THE tick?, is she going to cave?" suspense can be maddening at times -- worry wart. Mostly I just drive it, turn the satellite radio up, and enjoy. 42K and counting. Iif there is a reasonable filtration mod, I would be up for some PM.

 

[rbattelle]

suspense can be maddening at times -- worry wart.

That's interesting... you don't seem much like the worrying type.



Anyway, my "solution" is a 2-micron Stanadyne filter mounted between the existing stock cansiter and the CP-3. To support this, I also installed a new fuel pump (NOT a FASS or Air Dog pump). If you're bored or like eye pain you can read the complete story of my design/development here.



Please keep in mind my filtration system did NOT solve any specific issues I was having (my knock disappeared on its own while the system was still bone stock). I built the system because I fear long-term damage from small particulates. This truck is the last one I ever want to buy.



-Ryan