DC & Cummins: "Don't use K&N's etc." take a look....

[DEZLPWR]

I was checking out the Cummins website under Dodge 24V FAQ's and came across this question:



Does DaimlerChrysler authorized the use of high-flow aftermarket air filters such as K&N with my Cummins engine?





No. DaimlerChrysler and Cummins do not recommend the use of increased flow air filters such as K&N, because they can allow contaminants into the intake that can ruin an engine (scoring the sides of the pistons, etc. )





This has me worried as I installed a K&N 0880 a little while ago. Are there any members out there that have a lot of miles on their Cummins using the K&N filters so I can sleep better at night?

"Scoring the sides of the pistons" scares me! Would K&N be willing to back us up on this?



Steve

 

[JR2]

DC and Cummins don't reccomend you do anything to your truck at all, heck they probably would tell you to only use there oil and antifreeze too.



I have run a RE0880 for about 5 k miles in dusty conditions and have just changed the oil and sent off a oil sample. I will report the results when I get them back.



If you do a search for RE0880 you will find about a million posts with all sorts of opnions. There are guys that HATE KandN and there are guys that love them. I had no problems with mine, but I took it off and am now running the "moparguy" style filter. It is huge and you don't have to oil it. I am going to run it for 5K miles and do another oil sample and see how it works.



Good luck.

 

[TXDSLSHOP]

My 3cts

Again this is merely my experience and in no way is meant to degrade any product. I ran a K&N on my 98' CTD 12 valve and during routine underhood inspection I decided to pull off the intake hose going in to the turbo from the airbox. Now mind you when I installed this filter I removed the same hose and cleaned it and ensured I lubed the seal on the filter. When I removed the hose I was very distraught with what I found. The normally clean turbine vanes as well as the intake hose were covered with copious amounts of very fine dust and the vanes had several nicks in them where debris had struck the vanes! As I said I had just inspected and cleaned these prior to installing the K&N. This after only 5,000 miles and it was properly oiled. When the filter was held up to light you could see dozens of small slits where the cotton had seperated and allowed foreign object debris to enter! I got my money back and returned to WIX with no further problems! Sorry this was so long!

 

[Don M]

I run a K&N filter with the pre-filter and love the thing.

I have done two seperate oil analysis's and they both come back perfect.

The first one was 3 PPm of silicon and the second was 2.

Those are smokin good numbers.

I do not use the K&N filter that is designed for the factory air box though. I hear they have edge sealing problems in the factory box. I have a re-0880 filter that uses a pre-filter which I also oil lightly.



Love my K&N.



Don~

 

[BK]

I've not run the K&N on my CTD, but have in the past.



My only reason I've not run it on my CTD is a bit of engineering common sense.

If there is more air flow, and the filter is the same basic size and both filters are full of pleats... something has to give.

The stock filter is two stages... . because these engines use large amounts of air, there's gonna be lots of vacum action to pick stuff up out of the air. Get ride of the second stage,,,, probably less restriction, but more will get by.

K&N admits that they have larger pores in their filter and use

the oil to try and trap contaniments, all to cause greater air flow.

But less restriction to the air flow, means at some point something else riding the air will come along if it doesnt adhear to the oil. Sooner or later the oil does dry up and or become layered. .

With the amount of air our CTD pump through the intake, I could imagine the engine sucking the oil off of the filer.



I saw the thread about the LARGE Cummins filter... if one used the same filter elements of the stock filter put provide twice the surface area, you would have 1/2 the restriction to air flow (not exactly linear, but just for discussion sake), since half the volume is now going through the same tiny area of the filter element, there's much less surface tension or turbulance through that very element and better laminate air flow... . so thats a win-win... since the level of filtering stays the same... but you gotta figure out where to stick that monster.



You can not get something for nothing...



Just my $. 02

Bob

 

[dmurdock]

what a coincidence!!!

I was at the dealer last friday gettin the clockspring replace, and went into the parts area to look around (where they show off all the bolt-on goodies). There was a stack of k&n's in mopar boxes on one of the display tables. As soon as I thought about it I wished i had my digital camera with me for posts like this one. The filters were in a plain white box and had "mopar performance" stickers on them... k&n along with the price was written in magic marker on the box.

 

[Texas Diesel]

I may be alone but when K&N's first cane out, I held one up to a light. Guess what? Lots and lots of holes. If someone gave me one of those filters I would throw it away. Ever wonder why it has been suggested not to run them is a dusty environment? Do your CTD a favor a put Mr K&N in the trash can. Just my opinion. PLEASE dont quote me the sales pitch or the unsubstantiated claims made by them, just use your brain. If you can see holes in it the dirt WILL get through. Run whatever makes you happy.

 

[MikeR]

DC has been selling K&N filters through their Mopar Performance catalog since '94ish that I know of.

If you're really worried about it,then send in your oil samples... it will tell you.



I've had my 0880 in for 52,000 miles and three cleanings now. No dust is getting past it. I make sure there's tack oil on every square inch.



I saw one particular TDR members' truck that has big holes ripped in his 0880,and his truck seems to be running fine with over 130k on it.



-Mike

 

[NVR FNSH]

hmm, $30,000+ engines in SCORE trophy trucks running K&Ns in Baja. There's dust down there, right? I wonder how many of them have blown an engine due the K&N... . None, that I can think of.



Brian

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

I live in the Southern California desert. I have a K&N in My 24V and have since the day I bought it. These filters work. Yea, the filters take more work( I clean mine with oil changes,3000 miles) but it sure has alot more buildup of dust and dirt than anything I have ever used. I ride dirt bikes and use them on them too. Severe dusty conditions. Still no problems... ... Paper filters suck(sand and dust) bottem line

 

[telong]

I have a K&N on mine that I got from a Cummins dealer as a "performance upgrade". However, like Killer59, I have found dust build up on my impeller since installing the K&N. That does not make me a happy camper. I have read on this site postings from others who have had similar experiences with K&N and say it's due to improper sealing in the factory air box. I have to agree. I am considering switching to an Amsoil filter which does seal much better in the factory air box.

 

[DarrellB]

In the garbage now

I threw my K&N in the trash about a week ago after talking with Greg at TST he told me that the main proublem with the K&N is that the oil that you use on it is getting sucked in the cold air charging system and gumming up the sensors on the motor. I had mine on the truck for 54,000 miles and when I took it out I took the Map/Boost sensor and the one farther back on the motor (can't remember the name of it) off and they were pretty nasty looking cleaned them off with elecronic conector cleaner and reinstalled them. I did not over oil the filter and cleaned it about every 10,000 miles. I put a filter from Napa in the air box and noticed no performance change. I would stick with the stock air filter and just remove the ducked running from the fender to the airbox and drill a few holes in the bottom of the box and go with that.



Not trying to degrade K&N, I still run one on my atv but just think our truck draw too much air for this kind of filter.



Later

Big D

 

[John_P]

SCooke:



The K&N Filter is a controversial subject on this website

as "JR2" already said.



To answer your question about mileage, I have 133,000

miles on my 96' Dodge CTD and have used the K&N

filters since day one! I have sent samples of my oil in

and as of yet have had no problems; all readings are

always within the proper specs. I also used the K&N

in my old 92' CTD and sold it with 104,000 miles with

no problems either.



I still believe that a BIG problem with these filters is

improper oiling of the filter, either overoiling or not

enough oil.



As "NVR FNSH" said, the Class 1 trucks that run the

Baja 1000 races use the K&N filters in their trucks.

These filters are alot bigger than the ones we have

in our trucks. Also, my son races Yamaha Banshee

4-wheelers on the AMA and Mid-Atlantic ATV race

circuits. Our motors are built by Duncan Racing in

Santee, California. We race in some VERY dusty

conditions Steve and have never had any engine

failures. BTW, the 2000 AMA Grand National 250

Pro ATV Champion was Travis Spader who rode

for Duncan Racing using K&N filters in his ATV's.



I hope this has helped you some. Like other

members, I am not knocking the regular filters

either. I think everyone should pick the products

that work best for them. But I also feel that some

products have gotten a "bad rap" for reasons other

than they are bad/inferior products, but for reasons

as I pointed out above.



E-mail me if you need more information on this.



Take care.

 

[BK]

How often does a Score truck attempt to get 100K+ miles off of that engine. . never, their goal is to finish that race with that engine, and thats as long as the oil'ed filter has to last and thats as long as that engine stays assymbled.



And a very good peice of input- John P. , ... the filters they are running are much large than the ones we are. I don't know the cfm they are running, nor what the cfm is for our CTDs... Put it would be interesting. .



Again, I'm not bashing K&N, ran 'em for years on gassers.



"I" don't want to make the compromise on my CTD. . and yes thats my choice and I've given my reasons. Just as those that are having success with them are darn happy with them...



What a great country we live in that we can make that choice... but wooopppss, I forgot about the sumpreme being... .

DC...

It's interesting with DC selling them, but we have also heard of certain dealers selling and installing rear diff covers and than yet others voiding warrenties cause an after market diff cover was installed and others yet blaming leaks at the axles seal for it..... "level too high"... or other reasons... .

 

[Straight6Jeff]

I check my K&N every oil change (2K). Ont he change two weeks ago, I found the filter was coming apart. There were piece of cotton/gauze heading towards the TB like little hairs. Also, there were holes in the element. THe filter has a total of 14k on it.

I picked up a replacement Purolator, and found it has an oiled foam pre-filter glued to the standard paper element. I will NEVER go back to K&N, and they are getting the old filter back. Hopefully, I'll get my money back

 

[Bill Stockard]

K&N Air Filters

Where's tlippy??? We need your advice on this topic!!!



I agree with "Tommy Too Stock" from a previous post on this subject.



Bill

 

[Sky]

I have had no problems with my K&N and really like it thus far. If DC says K&N is a "no no" Then why are dealers all over the place selling them? I was just at the dealer a few days ago and there is a whole shelf full of them for our CTD.

 

[John_P]

BK:



Thanks for your reply to my post.



I realize, as I am sure Brian (NVR FNSH) does, that the

Class 1 Baja trucks are not going to go 100,000 miles.

What I was trying to point out was that the manafacturers

of those trucks (Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Dodge Race Teams)

have the confidence to put the K&N filters in the trucks

under TERRIBLY dusty conditions! I have seen those

trucks so covered with dust and dirt you could not even

see the paint!



---------

John_P

 

[Briar Hopper]

The guys on here with something negative to say about their K&N filters are not specifying whether it's the one in the stock airbox, or the RE-0880. It would help if you specified which one you're using.

I don't like the one for the stock airbox. It came apart on me. I returned it. As an Amsoil dealer, I'm not happy having to run an RE-0880 with RE-025 foam pre-filter, but it's been all I could find that would flow enough air. I've though of modifying a Donaldson airbox, but that takes more time and $$$ than I have now.

My turbo vanes are still clean, and the RE-0880 is still in good shape. My oil analysis results do not show high silicone levels. I've had the filter on there for over 30,000 miles now.

 

[WestTN]

K & N

My old truck has used a K & N since about 20,000 miles. At 223,900 it still runs like new>

The new truck has the stock factory filter. When it's time to change it will get a K & N.