DC & Cummins: "Don't use K&N's etc." take a look....

[JTBMC]

I ran K&N Filters in my truck with out a problem replacing with a new filter every 30,000 miles, the frist 2 worked great, the third one soaked the hose and turbo fins at the 60,000 mile change and I was not aware of this untill 70,000 miles when I went to the Mopar Guy Filter NAPA- 2790. No dust in hose or on fins just an oily film.

 

[Jumbo Jet]

I read this post last night and decided to check my hose to the turbo. I took a clean white cloth and wiped the inside of the hose from the airbox to the turbo. NOTHING. NIL. Clean as a whistle!



30,200 miles on the K&N.



It works for me!



I'll not second guess anyone else's results. It has been a hot and dusty summer around here.



Stock Airbox.

 

[Don M]

I have done two oil tests both with the K&N air filter RE-0880 w prefilter. The numbers were very very low on silicon. 2 and 3 parts per million.



For you guys trying the glove trick... . use a black glove as well.

Silicates are lighter in color and show up better on black.

I can't get mine to show any dirt in the intake hose.



Properly oiling the filter is key for the guys that have the oiled down turbine fins. too much oil, you get dirty fins.

All air filter are subject to having holes or tears in the media. Not just K&N.





Watch the clowns at oil change places that blow out filters to clean them. They can blow tears in the media real easily with compressed air.



Don~

 

[3dracer]

I used to run a K&N in my '92 and always kept over oiling it. Then when Amsoil came out with one that I could use on it I never had that problem and loved it. The over-oiling was putting oil-film on the fins. It still has the Amsoil filter on it and I am waiting for them to come out with one to get rid of the air box on my '98. I have a friend that has an Amsoil in the original air box with no troubles. But I want one like the RE0880 that K&N makes. I like the idea of thier filters and is alot easier to clean. At least on the '92 anyway. I seen at Terre Haute that they had one for a chevy that could maybe be modified to fit. Does anyone know anything about this. I have nothing against K&N but, I love the Amsoil filters. So untill they come out with one for my'98 I am staying stock paper...

 

[merryman]

When I first read about K&N complaints, I was uneasy as I had had one on my last truck for over 120K, in the stock box. Rushed out to check the turbo-----sparkling clean!!!!!



Vaughn

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I have run bot the RE-0880 K&N and Amsoil filter.



Like some others posted, my factory oiled and WELL sealed K&N let TONS of dust and junk through. Oil analysis had silicon at 14. This subject was beat to death on a LONG thread I started "K&N Doesn't Stop Dirt!!!" From that thread I (along with some others) concluded:



--Most K&N filters are good but definitely some that are bad out of the box. This seems to occur somewhat frequently so you are taking a chance when you stick a new one on your CTD. Be sure to keep a close eye on it and do oil samples. If you got a good K&N that works for you, then by all means stick with it.

--Some areas, like where I live, may have much finer dust than in most places. Here in the Eastern Washington desert it has been documented we have some of the finest dust particles in the US.

--If your oil analysis numbers look good and your intake is clean, then you should be confident your filtration is working great.



Another note, when I called K&N tech support last year the tech said K&N advises against putting their filters on turbocharged diesel engines



I switched to the Amsoil filter in the stock box and that made a huge difference in filtration. Not a spec in the intake and great analysis numbers to boot.



Bill, speaking of Tommy Too Stock, I haven't seen him post for a LOOOOONGGG time!! Maybe we BOMBed him completely off the board



Vaughn

 

[DarrellB]

Need a part#

You guys that are running the amsoil filter in the stock box, I need a part# and a place to order one online since no one around here has the amsoil filter.



Would be really greatful if someone could help, I tryed the k&n and it didn't work well so I am back to the stock filter. I really don't notice any performance diffrence in the two but would like to try the amsoil to.



Thanks for the help

Big D

 

[John]

K&N

The fact is K&N filters do work! If the installation instructions are adhered to as well as the maintenance ritual, you shouldn't have a problem. I have used the OE Dodge/Fleetguard, Fleetguard, and Cummins/Fleetguard paper filters, the XLerator dual stage foam filter, the K&N RE-0880 and 25-0880 prefilter, as well as my current filter, a K&N OE style filter element placed inside my fiberglass Air Bulldog replacement air box base/OE air box top. To date, my very best oil analysis results have ALL been with the OE style panel filter installed. Blackstone Laboratories states the industry silicon average is 7 PPM whereas, my results have ALL been from 1 PPM to 3 PPM... with MANY more miles on the sample than the 5k industry average! If the K&N air filters don't work how in the he!! can all you nay sayers explain that????





DIDN'T THINK so!

 

[John]

TLippy a.k.a. Tommy Too Stock

Originally posted by Vaughn MacKenzie

speaking of Tommy Too Stock, I haven't seen him post for a LOOOOONGGG time!! Maybe we BOMBed him completely off the board

Oh, I don't know about that... I talked to Tom at the Timberline Dodge rally in July. Tom had just installed his new Power Vision mirrors (old style, with the new generation wiring harness and mirror backing plates) on his '99 Ram... he seemed to be a happy camper.



Speaking of happy camper, that's where I first met up with TLippy... many of us were on the Happy Campers BB prior to the creation of the CDW web site which evolved into the TDR web site. He!!, there aren't too may of us left; TLippy, is scarce on this BB, Scott1 has been gone for well over a year now, Mark Kitchell I see has retired as the 2nd Gen. moderator (I believe he was the first poster on the CDW web site)... just to name a few. All very good people!

 

[HC]

I have done two seperate oil analysis's and they both come back perfect. The first one was 3 PPm of silicon and the second was 2. Those are smokin good numbers...

I have a re-0880 filter that uses a pre-filter which I also oil lightly.

Don,

How many miles on those oil samples? And how many miles on your engine? I ask for a couple of reasons; first, I noticed that often those reporting great numbers used bypass oil filters, like you. Second, in reading many, many posts on others oil analysis results, plus doing my own tests, I've noticed a strong downward trend in Si as my miles went from ~16. 5k to 55k. This trend seems to work almost independently of whatever I'm doing with the air filter, such as changing to K&N, addition of Prefilter, etc. I say "independently" because the curve is smooth, decreasing as miles increase, vs. showing sharp changes when I make a change in the equipment. In most cases whenever someone reports alarmingly high Si, further questioning shows they have less than 10k, or even less than 5k, on their engine. Also, folks that are posting "great" analysis results amost always seem to have bypass filters. This goes contrary to what one Blackstone technician told me, because he felt Si particles would be in the oil at similar ppm even with bypass filtration. Bottom line: I'd like to see my Si at 2; I'm not there yet.

 

[Todd T]

aftermarket filters

my mom told me not to play with matches, or I would pee to bed.



I'm still waiting for that wet spot



Darrell, that is the same scare tactic that Cummins is using, I'll bet, you called TST about a problem you have with your pm, and that was the first thing they told you.



"its not our problem, you put a K&N filter in, and dirtied the sensor we are using. " well replace the sensor and the problem is still there. HUH imagine that, what to do now.



I would love to see someone come forward on this board, with a ruined engine that was from dirt contamination through the intake tract. not in the oil, but the intake tract. actual ingestion of dirt.



I can tell you this, I wont hold my breath, and I dont believe in the boogy man



if you dont like the oiled cotton filter, then use an AFE they are paper.

 

[TURBOs4LIFE]

Todd T,

I agree... If you are concerned with a K&N dont use it or replace with something else! Plain and simple!

 

[Don M]

HC,



The oil samples had about 7000 miles on the first and 8000 on the second.

I have very high miles 200,000. This seems to go hand in hand with what you are saying. The problem I have is that the silicon levels are not from internal engine components that are wearing. Silicon is from outside air or dust in the air as you know Im sure.



I lightly oil my prefilter and the main element still has the factory oil. I have not serviced it yet.

With the limited knowledge I have I feel the bypass filter would not remove mst silicates in the oil. I believe the majority of particles would be too small to be caught.



I would like to know what you come up with.

I have even considered doing a small test under controlled conditions and get the bottom line on all of this. The problem is the gain is so small for me I cant take justify the time lost.



Don~

 

[TomGolden]

My experience with my RE-0880 and Psychotty system:



Installed the 0880/PSA back in January 2001, engine had maybe 5000 miles on it. I change my oil every 4000 miles (at least to date, will go longer when switch to Amsoil in couple of months) and of course remove the air intake hose to the turbo so as to make it easier to reach the oil filter. I check my turbo vanes for dust/debris/marks/whatever, also remove the 0880 from the Psychotty and inspect it. After 17,000+ miles on the 0880/Psychotty, I have as yet seen no dust/wear/marks/etc. on the turbo, and the K&N appears to be in great shape.



I ocassionally drive through dusty areas, when driving through central valley of California, maybe every couple of months or so.



YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary).



Tom

 

[Todd T]

so Don, your saying your engine has ONLY lasted 200,000 miles and at what mileage did you install your K&N.

 

[Don M]

I installed the stock air box K&N at roughly 108,000 miles. Switched to the RE-0880 filter at around 180,000.

Thats just under 100,000 miles with a K&N and the motor is still very much alive.

Always worked for me, and my oil analysis further prove that point.









Don~

 

[Steve M]

I can't say it works or doesn't work but, simply click on the K&N website and read the warranty. They warranty the filter only and state in writing that they "will not" cover any damage to your motor as a result of using a K&N filter. That's enough to convince me that they don't have enough faith in their own product to warrant that it will protect your vehicle from the dirt that it's supposed to protect your vehicle from.

On the other hand, Fram, the folks that get the thumbs down, states in writing that they "will" cover damage to your motor as a result of using thier filter if it fails. A Mopar filter removes all doubt as to who will cover damages if it fails.

What's wrong with a paper filter? Nascar used to use oil bath filters until they discovered tiny bits of oil soaked dirt were breaking away from the filter media and being sucked into the motor causing scoring of the cylinder walls and loss of motors. Now they're back to paper filters like we buy over the counter.

I won't use a Fram oil filter but I will use a Fram air filter. They have alittle more than white paper media. There's some other strands in there and they feel like they have some type of light oil in the media. They don't flow like a K&N but, I throw it out when it's dirty and put in a new one. I'd have a hard time putting a used filter back on my truck.

But, and that's a big butt, we're all different.

 

[BK]

Steve,

there a site done by an amature that wanted to look into the difference between oil filters for his own info, and he made the website with all the cool info.



Info started pouring in and one piece was a internal letter from an "-Ex- Fram employee"... .

The letter said that they offered the warranty because they believed that for the most part no one is gonna be able to prove that a fragment from the filter caused engine failure...



Other filter companies went after the site, but Fram never did , nor attacked the validaty of the letter! He had some lawsuit problems and in the end had to divorce certain information from the page that did all cutting open and measurements of the filters.

He started another webpage with the other info that caused the problems... stating that it was all his personal opinion... .

(geez what happened to freedom of speech)



With that and some other info I stopped using Fram.



To Fram's credit, I thought I read a post here on TDR from a gent that lost and engine, both DC and Cummins would not honor the warranty since the Fram was not an approved filter and a piece of the filter caused the failure. . but from the info from Cummins, Fram stepped up and paid for the engine.





Thought I had my mind made up but not sure now... was the letter just an fraud and Fram didnt care?



Or does Fram count on the fact the DC, Chevy and Ford cant do and autopsy as Cummins can? ( assigned risk )





All I know, since all the stock stuff is good to great quality and wont void my warranty, I've been buying stock stuff from Geno's... . or my local Do$ge $ealer...

It aint worth saving a few $$ here and there compared to what I'm paying for the truck via payments to the bank.



Bob