DD Delivers

[X-10]

Don't know if this is in the right forum or not, but just wanted to say what a great outfit Diesel Dynamics is. The whole crew is a joy to B. S. with. Special thanks to Lawrence for taking the time to explain some things to a not very mechanical kind of guy. I had e-mailed Keith several times about what I wanted out of my truck and they fixed me up just right. Has stock like drivability when working but can be cranked to the tune of 455 hp when playing . The only bad thing about the trip was riding in Marks' truck with the auto - not coming off boost between shifts is great! Made me wish I could use an auto. Their Vegas location is an ideal excuse to take the wife on vacation. She had a great time also (although she hasn't seen the credit card bill yet ). I highly recomend them to anybody considering upgrades!

 

[Cummins Corvette]

It is good to hear that someone has had a positive experience with Diesel Dynamics. They could not answer my questions to save their lives. The person that I talked to (Lawrence wouldn't talk to me) just kept switching the subject every time he didn't have an answer, or just rattled something off that really didn't have any thing to do with my question. I am bummed with their service, and would like to stick with Piers, but I can't get that guy to return my calls. The only person that I can get on the phone to answer questions is Kurt. DD's person up here in Ogden is pretty good to work with too. I will never buy anything from DD in Las Vegas though. I felt like they were saying, "show me the money, then we might answer some of your questions". They seem like very financially centered people who are less concerned or patient with others who might not spend money on their stuff. I consider my self to be a tuff customer who doesn't throw money at people without a reason to. When I was comparing one on their products to an equivalent from another vendor, they didn't even try to defend their product; I just got "well go buy it from them then". That was when I said, "ok, I will" and hung up the phone. I also heard that another potential customer was getting a warm reception from DD, until they mentioned the 20% discount for TDR members, then whoever they were talking to at DD got a whole lot less enthusiastic about their questions. I am glad they aren't that way for every one.

 

[RJOL]

Originally posted by CAnderson

... They could not answer my questions to save their lives... . just kept switching the subject ... . I can't get that guy to return my calls. ... I will never buy anything from DD in Las Vegas. I felt like they were saying, "show me the money, then we might answer some of your questions"..... They seem like very financially centered people ..... I just got "well go buy it from them then". ... . DD got a whole lot less enthusiastic about their questions.

Wow Chris... don't hold back... and you're even having trouble with Piers???

 

[azgearpro]

Anderson, you ever thought when nobody wants to talk to you the problem might be you. :{

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Chris,



Most vedors involved in the Turbo industry for these Dodge rams you will find answers your basic simple questions, i am privy to the questions you were posing to DD and the odds are they will not give those kinds of answers to you or even to me, and i work quite closely with Lawrence on a lot of the stuff he does.

I also do testing for Piers, neither one of them are about to tell me about the pinwheel #'s , shaft specifications, lube specifications , who balances the pinwheels for them, how are they done. That is the type of information I would need if i wanted to start building turbos.



For me its a different senario, since my components are a part of a bigger picture i have to share more information. Clutch pac clearances,type of clutches used, type of bushings ect.



Try phoning TST and ask for material info. used on camplates, who manufactures camplates for them, what is the profile necessary for different hp ratings. Chances are you arent going to get too much information.



I dont blame them for wondering what you are up to.

Maybe try putting yourself in their shoes and see if their attitude makes more sense.

 

[Bob Wagner]

how many vendors already got screwed

by reverse engneering? We all hear the stories.



Remember its hard to rebuild burnt bridges...

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

Chris,

There are certain questions you must learn not to ask. These people depend on this data for their living. They are understandably protective of it.

 

[HeberRam]

Diesel Dynamics !!!!

I have purchased a lot of stuff from DD and found them to be very helpful in answering my questions regarding up-grades, expected performance of their products, and general service. . Mark , Larwence, and Keith are in the business of selling and developing performance parts, and I have had the opportunity to visit their shop several times, and have witnessed the way each call is answered, along with walk-in customers. . In each case, the inquiry was handled in a very professional manner, making sugguestions to up-grades depending what the customers expections are and costs. . I know for a fact, they do not comment or compare their products with other Vendors, or give specfic technical information out regarding the development of their products... These are business secrets which keep them on the cutting edge. I choose to use their products because of the quality R&D that goes into each item they sell, along with good service and warranty.



P. S. I personally recommend them to all my friends along with, Diesel Dynamics of Utah.



P. S. S. No I'm not affliated any way with Diesel Dynamics, just a happy customer... Oo.

 

[Fred Swanson]

I couldn't agree more that Diesel Dynamics is a very professional group to work with. Yes, there are some questions I can see they won't answer, and for good reason.



I'm glad to be associated with them, and I use, recommend and sell their products for a reason.

 

[Don M]

One just has to take a peak at the quality of the injectors they build. Its second to no one IMO.

They are always doin' and tryin' new stuff.



Don~

 

[LSMITH]

DD has also been very helpful to me when I have asked questions. I could really care less what makes a product though, my questions center around "what is it going to do for me", "how long can I expect it to last with ______ treatment" and "what are the implications of using it". I have gotten straight answers from them each time I have asked, and great service with each purchase I have made from them.



Two thumbs up to Diesel Dynamics, I also recommend them to my friends.

 

[azgearpro]

I have been inside DD,s shop and got a chance to meet there techs, and they are great to work with. You would not believe the r&d that goes into there products before production.



I would also like to say that Piers has help me out tremedously on my truck and others Ive worked on, His 12v ablity is 2nd to none.

 

[KatDiesel]

Only person I have really dealt with is Keith. He has always tried to answer my questions best he can, but I don't expect them to tell me everything.



He usually answers pretty fast as well (same day during business hours).



I've got DDIII's, and soon, very soon a few other products from them. It is true I am trying out Floor It's BD V injectors just because hes letting me... and its free And I am picking up a set of BD IV's for a bargain price.

 

[Don M]

Not wanting to change the thread subject too much but expanding on an earlier post. Piers has answered more questions than I ever would imagine a guy would. I rarely spend much money with the guy, but he keeps on fielding my questions and Louise is cool beans too.

As far as Keith goes. He has amswered some of my e-mails at 9 PM in the past.

Both companies or guys are top notch. Less we forget that Donnelly is right there too.



I guess I did kinda change the original topic. Oops!@ me.





Don~

 

[Kent Kuykendall]

Nothing but good service from DD here as well.



Kent

 

[X-10]

Probably should just leave the positive comments speak for themselves, but I won't. Chris, I like to think I research my mods very closely also, and although I did get all my questions answered to my liking through Keith, I still took into consideration the reputation of DD through the TDR and it was an easy decision as to who got to work on my truck. Now all I know of you is from the posts I've seen you make on this site, and to be blunt, from your posts on the B-1 thread, it's a good thing I'm not a vendor cause if I was Kurt and you were running down my turbo as much as you were his, you'd have to pick one up second hand because there's no way I'd sell you one!!!

Thanks again DD for making my truck all the more fun !

 

[Cummins Corvette]

I didn't ever intend to offend Kurt. (at least not that much ) When I read the post in which he showed how much I had rattled him, I immediately called him to apologize. He was very nice, and thus, is getting about one month's worth of my total income. Perhaps more, time will tell.



None of the questions that I was referring to in my original post were the technical ones that I was asking about their turbo Bill. The other questions where more like "you guys are selling a REMANUFACTURED injection pump for 3200 dollars (that was the price I was quoted on the phone), Piers is selling NEW pumps for 2200. I doubt that your modifications are worth 1000 bucks, + the fact that it is a reman. " The response I got was "well go buy it from him then" in a pi$$ed off kind of way. Like how dare someone question their products? The person I was talking to didn't even try to defend DD's product, or try to explain what was so special about their pump. That was that last bit that really left a bad taste in my mouth. I can understand them not wanting to give out technical information, but not telling me why their turbo won't beak like an hx-40? That, and trying to find something to compare their new turbo with, were the only real questions that I had about their new turbo. I can't remember any more specific examples. The overall experience was exactly like dealing with a used car salesman. I got the exact same kind of feeling. Like they were hiding the fact that the engine in this car is filled with 90 weight or that it had been totaled and rebuilt, and selling as if that had not happened. I felt like they were skillfully dodging my questions, and feeding me an answer that really had nothing to do with the question to distract me from what I was trying to determine.



In the end, besides feeling like I was looking for a used car, I got the impression that that guy thought I wasn’t going to spend any money with them, and that they really had no interest in any more of my questions because of that. I may give that impression, I guess that it is sort of an automatic thing I do, kind of a test of how willing they are to just help people when they don’t see directly how they are going to get any money from it. It isn’t something that I do just because I like to aggravate people (I don't like to do that). It is a way for me to test the water so to speak, to try and tell what motivates them. Do they really have an interest in helping people, or only an interest in getting your money? I have found that the customer service from that latter is often crappy.



Sorry for the long post, I am just trying to explain what is going on from my point of view.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I posted the stuff below the line on the thread about the 160, 175, and 215 pumps. It seems that one source of Chris's compalint against Diesel Dynamics concerns a conversation about injection pumps.



Ya know, even a vendor can have a bad day, and after being badgered with questions all day, can get impatient



A properly modified pump, even with all used parts, can deliver more power than a brand new unmodified pump. Which one is worth more depends on the pump's condition, and your goal in life. Sickly's pump has given 609 hp in public (613. 7 in private ). It has over 100,000 miles on it. A brand new 215 hp pump should give about 207 hp on the dyno.

_______________________________________________

>>Cumminsgetme dynoed 446 with his 175 pump and then put on one of Joe's maxed out 215 pumps and put up 476. Not much difference in my opinion for the price tag. <<



There are reasons why adding fuel via larger pump doesn't give the power increase you expect. With a diesel you need compression (and part of that is a good valve job) not just for what it does in a gas engine, but to heat the air and start the burning process. I have seen a loss of 50 hp from a worn out valve job--not one that is totally roached, just worn out after 75,000 miles.



There are some secrets, but I did not hold out on Cord (Cumminsgetme). Bolted onto my engine, it should give 600 hp just like the 913 pump I am using, my original pump with over 100,00 miles on it. All I assumed was that Bosch knows how to balance and calibrate their new pumps. As Cord does more stuff he should get more power out of that pump. As someone else noted, the fuel is only one part. You need to get that part sorted out, but then go on to other things.



From the other thread I see that Chris is down on DD. Well, they feel (rightly I think) that just because someone can ask a question does not mean the answer must be given. No one can doubt that their stuff works, because they have the dyno results. Similarly, the projects Lawrence and I have collaborated on were effective. Just check with the Ford guys who put on the Dyno Day last March when Sickly got 609. 3 and 609. 5 hp on #2 diesel fuel only.



Different trucks act differently, and it is easy to lose some hp when the air is bad, if all of it has to come through the turbo (no nitrous). Other stuff can be a problem too, and that is why Lawrence at Diesel Dynamics uses the dyno extensively to verify the power increases his customers pay for. Some other vendors also verify their products this way. BD Power and TST Products come to mind as two other shops that have in-house dynos.



In summary, I think it is fair for a customer to expect the promised power gains, or if no specific amount of power gain is promised, the product is what was advertised. As you get away from simple add-ons, it gets harder to predict the power gain exactly because other variables come into play and are not in the vendor's control. It is another thing to pursue the exact approach, adjustment specs, and parts relentlessly. It is yet another thing when someone uses one shop for advice, and then buys elsewhere, where there is little or no help available, because the price is slightly better.



Cost cutting has become a way of life, and is not all bad. It works with generic, standardized products and services. It doesn't work well with situations where expertise is critical, whether diesel power or building a bathroom correctly. If you are in construction, you know the difference between sheet rock, greenboard, and the "hardiback" board. You know if the worker doesn't add latex milk to the grout, you will have loose tiles later. The final product looks the same, but doesn't last the same.



Chris expects the answer to what parts are different in the three Dodge P7100 pumps. Your Bosch shop can show you their catalog. A very large number of parts have different part numbers across the three pumps. That is your answer. Sorry, that is all the Bosch factory tells their shops. Bosch expects the shop to order the correct bfactory part for the part number of pump they are repairing. Which parts work best? Which different parts have significant differences? You only find that out by trial and error; Bosch doesn't say. Someone has to spend a lot of time and money trying parts and by looking at parts inferring which ones are likely to improve fuel delivery. Who will pay the shop to do this? Why should those answers be free to everyone, customer and competitor alike?



Sorry to bore those who don't need this ranting. I just felt this thread and a few others needed some clarification as to why vendors keep information to themselves, and why I feel it benefits all of us. Without competitive advantage, the good shops can't stay in business. They can't do R&D while giving the cheapest price. they try instead to give the best value to their loyal customers. On the companion DD thread, a number of their customers responded favorably. It seems they ARE getting good value.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Joe- you seem like one heck of a nice guy, and the most likely candidate for a new pump purchase. Please see my post in the other thread too.

 

[KLockliear]

Hello Chris, just to set the record straight it was me you talked to on the phone the second time.



First, the price of our Stage 4 913 pump is clearly marked on our website (I don't think the moderators will let me post the price here), and is $200 less than you say I told you. That's an outright price for a freshly rebuilt, then turned up 913 pump. I KNOW this pump will deliver 400+hp if used with our Stage 3 injectors.



On the phone, you said that 400-450hp is your goal. I've talked with you several times and each time told you that you can achieve that goal tomorrow with our HX-40, Stage 3 injectors and the Stage 4 pump we sell.



You stated that Gillette diesel can make 600hp with a 12v truck. If they can, great. Regardless who you buy from, we all (vendors) make claims on power. I know what my stuff will make. I will back mine up with the dyno. I'm not saying that other people can't make that kind of power - that's not the issue. If you want to purchase that kind of power from my shop, you need these parts. They cost this much. That will give you want you want power wise. We don't do the Stage 4 upgrade to 911 pumps.



You expressed your interest to make that power with your 911 pump. Perhaps it can be done, but we don't offer it. I can only offer to sell you what I know will work, and what we currently offer.



I think you can see from the posts on this thread that our stuff makes the power that we claim. If you want that power, just ante up and it's yours. If you want to go through someone else and get the same power through other means, more power to you. I'm not telling you to buy my products... all I said is that this is what it takes to make the power. Whether you listen to what I said and use the parts I prescribed, is up to you. That's the limit to which I have to "defend" my products.



Regarding the information on the turbo, as I told you, it's a new piece in R&D currently that I don't have specific information on yet. It hasn't been released for sale - it hasn't even been completely tested, as I said on the phone. When I have complete test results and we make it available, I'll have a lot more of the information you are looking for - but I don't yet, and that's what I said.



One of the similarities between DD and DTT is that we are very direct. We don't beat around the bush on questions. If you ask, you get what we feel is the correct answer or we will tell you that we don't have the information to answer the question at hand. That's what you were told Chris - I don't have the answers for your questions regarding our new turbo.



I hope this sheds some light on your scenario.