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De-Bombed

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Cummins Ram 4x4 works just fine off road

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Blasphemy You Say !?

Anyways, not really de-bombed just less bombed. Here's the story:

Decided I'm blowing too much fuel out the tailpipe when the engine is cold which is not a good thing since it's winter and getting colder -- and, more importantly, I plow snow. One thing I don't need pushing snow is a smoke cloud to rival the blowing snow. Now, keep in mind I don't mind a little smoke while working through the gears but the constant stop and go while plowing is another matter entirely.

So: decided to 'downgrade' to RV 275 injectors (straight from Bosch).

275's from DDIII's:
Put those babies (275s) in two weekends ago -- I really like the drivability. This thing purrs like a kitten. Very smooth take offs. Definitely less umph when I get on it (of-course) but there is literally ZERO smoke -- even with my original PowerMax engaged and a full throttle take off. See conclusion below for performance impact overall.

Lift Pump:
I noticed that my lift pump was making a bit of a racket so I replaced it this weekend ($129 from Cummins, labor myself, easy to do just hard to reach); and also removed my Prime-Loc (totally unimpressed with it). BTW: since inception this is the FIFTH generation of lift pump part number (now it's called a transfer pump). So I think upgrading makes sense if you have any doubts about your pump and you're still on the original (98. 5/99 owners).

PrimeLoc:
The bracket should not be totally supported on the intake manifold, that puts undue stress on the manifold bolts (all three of them holding it at a torque producing angle) and the gasket. When I tried to remove it I was WAY glad I was taking it off. I couldn't get the filter off! I wanted to take the filter off to make it easier to work with, but there was such a tangle of cables and wires wrapped around it where it was hanging I couldn't get a strap wrench or a standard filter wrench around it. Finally just took the whole works out in one piece. I also think the PrimeLoc is a bad idea in cold weather. Better to have the fuel filter where it's warm and near the block -- not to mention those extra lines the pump has to push cold fuel through.

ISB Paper Fuel Filter:
When I put this back in I realized why I put the PrimeLoc in in the first place. Man, getting this thing re-primed is a major pain in the butt! After mucho cranking, about a quart of diesel on my garage floor from priming, bleeding, priming, bleeding, ... . I suddenly realized why it's so darned difficult. Perhaps that paper filter needs a good soak before it will let enough fuel through? Makes sense.

DDIII:
Good injectors, I really liked them. So hope no-one gets the wrong impression.

Conclusion:
To get optimal performance plus economy balance from the DDIII's you really need more air (as hymns go up from Patton, Donnelly, and Chapple). Whether that can be accomplished with a bigger housing or if it also means an HX40 I don't know.

So how is the performance affected? Not as much neck snapping acceleration: but here's the surprise -- only sacrificed 2 lbs of boost under WOT at highway speeds! My max boost was about 38, now it's at 36! Seems to support the more air conclusion eh? To get that fuel to burn from the DDIII input it needs more air. And perhaps more importantly: I can't get this thing hot. EGT's are WAY down.

Mileage: up more than 2 mpg! The DDIIIs lowered the mileage about 1 mpg (no big deal for me, expected that, probably something to do with my lead foot). So I gained that back plus 1 more mpg, to 17 mixed city/hwy.

So: with stock turbo the 275s plus box are a fantastic combo. Great mileage, smooth running, cool temps. I was tempted to go with an HX40, but for my PERSONAL PREFERENCES (keep my Jacobs E-Brake, etc) this is a great combo. Good performance and still able to run as a work truck.


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Big MAK
98. 5 ISB 5spd 4x4 Quad Cab 3500, 275s and Orignal PowerMax
A "WARRANTY FREE" ZONE
https://www.turbodieseltrucks.com

[This message has been edited by Mark Kitchell (edited 11-20-2000). ]
 
Thanks for the useful information. I ended up de-bombimg my truck(a little) some time ago to make it more driveable. From what I have seen, there definetely is a practical limit when using the stock turbo.

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98. 5 2500 QC LB 4x4 5spd, white. BFG 285x75x16
Cummins 24v w/ TST PowerMAX w/EGT and Boost gauges on A-Pillar. VanAaken CPC. K&N In the factory air box. Stock Injectors, Stock Exhaust (Geno's Muffler Eliminator). Re-routed breather stink tube, 2WD-low kit, SnugTop, JJ Stainless Running boards, Tow Hooks, Bushwacker Street Flares, and a Cup Smoothie.
78,000 miles (11/17/00)
 
Thanks for the insight Mark. I was thinking about DDIIIs someday but maybe you persuaded me to keep the RVs--? who knows. Was your rig making a lot of black smoke or was it actually blue? How long have you had the Stage IIIs? I think DD has improved them over what they were selling a year or so ago and smoke less. With my RVs if I leave my truck unplugged outside at night, there is only a little blue smoke right at startup that clears quickly (temps in the 20s).


Vaughn

[This message has been edited by Vaughn MacKenzie (edited 11-20-2000). ]
 
It didn't smoke with the DDIIIs if I drove it carefully -- unless I got on the throttle of-course. Although I did notice a slight vapor trail -- only discernable at night with someone behind illuminating in headlights (probably that slight drop in mileage in vapor).

The smoke difference is that even under rough driving, slight lugging, etc, still no smoke at all. As you all know a slight lug with DDIII's will leave a cloud. The other smoke difference being the mildly aggresive vapor trail when the engine is cold/cool with the IIIs.

Mine were one of the older sets of injectors, so others are more efficient then my set.

The big surprise to me is that there was so little change in peak output.
 
Mark,
Just serviced my stock fuel filter yesterday for the umpteenth time. And have never had to bleed the fuel system. E-mail me if you are interested in the procedure I use. Otherwise I concur with the 275's a very sane option.

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98 Properly Valved 4x4 SWB QC ISB A/T Metallic Red w/ tan cloth interior, DC nerf bars, DC two piece mud-flaps, 275 h. p. injectors, Monroe Gas Magnums, Armor Tuff spray in bed liner, Goodyear Wrangler ATS 285/75r/16, BD Heavy Duty Valve body. Walker 21468 thru flow muffler,Cobra 29 NWST CB. American Racing Wheels. Power Edge EZ control module.
 
Some may not like my theory of the "vapor trail," but I suppose it could be from reduced atomization and efficiency. I propose the extrudehone process allows more fuel into the chamber, but does not atomize the fuel as well as the 275s. That's probably why Mark doesn't see a large decrease in power with the 275s, but experiences much less smoke. Mark, maybe you could try EDM injectors. The process is supposed to keep a sharp edge at the orifice, but also enlarge the diameter of the orifice. Tractor pullers love EDM injectors according to Piers. Not sure who does them.

Michael
 
Mark, I have also de-bombed slightly just until spring. 1st I moved my #11(280/685) plate back to the stock position and I could still get the clutch to slip slightly. I have now put back in my #12(230/605) plate. My milage is unchanged but getting on the freeways is kind of a bumber now.

In the spring I go back to semi-nuke hopefully to stay.

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EAT'M UP
97 2500 Club 4X4 3. 54, Forrest Green/Driftwood, LSD 5 speed, & Psychotty Air System, TST #11, 370 HP injectors, timing at 16 deg. , 16CM2 housing, AFC spring kit, Geno's Exhaust Blanket, TST EGT gauge & 0-60 boost gauge in A Pillar, Cat-be-gone, 4" Dynomax Bullet muffler, Crome 4" turn down, AmsOil Through out, Geno's trans filter kit, AmsOil Bypass system, Lund Winter front, Leer Cab Level Shell Driftwood , 255/85R16, Dyno'd 342 HP pre injectors & turbo housing *NRA/USPSA member and proud of it*

[This message has been edited by drawson (edited 11-21-2000). ]
 
I love it! I love it! I love it! You guys made my day. Thank you for having the chutspaz to post this information. KISS

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99' Quad 4x4 A/T LB 3. 54 30K Miles.
26' Terry w/slide 7500GVWR
"KISS your truck and it will be forever faithful"
 
Sorry to burst the 'ol bubble Tlippy,but I'm buying a new clutch on my next payday and wife said she's buying me a Blue Box for a christmas present. #ad


-Mike (resident hot rodder of the NW)

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'00 2500QC 4x4 LWB Dark Garnet R1AZ ETC DEE DMD 2HG AHJ DSA LNJ MXB AHC DD stage II Psychotty air Jacobs e-brake Isspro gauges Airoquip fuel lines 2wd-Low BFG 285/75 AT's.
 
drawson, your foreign 12-valve lingo has my head in a spin #ad


MichaelT, if you happen to know any more about EDM injectors please let us know. . . you've piqued my interest.

Vaughn
 
Phew, glad I'm not the only one. Good info here for other pre and baby BOMBers.

EDM sounds pretty interesting. Wonder if one of the vendors will pick up on it?
 
It could be that DD already incorporates this process, who knows? I would think if they want state-of-the-art injector tip honing they would be utilizing this already. Maybe someone would contact them and find out?? The information on Sarix' site is very impressive.

Vaughn
 
Piers told me about a year ago that he could get a set done for me for about $100 per injector. The question would be what diameter to bore out the orifice to. A starting point would be to measure the orifice diameter of a DDIII injector (like Mark's) and have your stock injectors EDM'ed. Someone should contact Piers and get the information if they're interested. I'll admit, I have been considering it. I noticed that www.enterpriseengine.com lists 24V injectors (275 hp and high performance). I wander if the high performance are EDM.

Michael
 
Mark, it'd be great if you can dyno the truck this winter, with the 275's, then re-install the DD III's and dyno again... Lot of trouble & expense, I know, but... the results posted on here would answer quite a few questions...
But what information you've already given us, is great, thanks !

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Tom Meers..... 2001 Cummins Dodge Ram 3500 Sport(black) 4x4 QC 5 spd. , GLTDR member, NRA Life Member since 1989. More family values, less government and taxes.
 
Maybe this would be worth posting on the 12V forum and where Piers may see it and reply. The EDM process would likely create a smoother more precise orfice bore than the EH process, and therefore would require a smaller diameter to be comparable to Stage III injectors in terms of performance. This is speculation on my part. If the EDM technology shows promise, I'd be willing to yank my RVs and get 'em drilled out. But since I haven't seen anything about this before, maybe it's not leaps and bounds better than the technology we're already utilizing.

Vaughn
 
Vaughn,
I wouldn't get the 275s EDMed... try that process with the stock injectors sitting on your shelf in the garage #ad
I think Diesel Dynamics uses stock injectors to create the "stealth" injector. If the EDM doesn't work, replace the 275s and all you've lost is about $600. That's the route I would take if and when I decide I need it.
-Michael
 
The EDM process will make the injector tip orifices very precise however, it will not make the bores smoother than extrude honing.
 
Why doesn't anyone use the DD I & DD II's ???. It seems as if the jump from the 275's to the DD III's are pretty extreme. I'm just curious, that's all, I'm still stock and just playing my options... .
 
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