Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Dead pedal, intermittent, NOT VP44

[BigMo]

Hello friends. It's been a loooooong time since I posted to TDR, but I need some help with my ETH and this is always the place I turn to in time of need!



My engine has been experiencing "dead pedal" at approximately 1500 - 1700 rpm. It happens on and off, but it has progressively gotten worse. Here's the situation: Crank truck and drive off. Boost, EGTs, and fuel pressure are good. The truck gets warmed up and I will be BARELY in the throttle, usually with no load, engine running about 1500 to 1700 rpm (like going down a very minor grade with trailing throttle). When I begin to pull back up the grade or go under a little load, the boost pressure will remain at ZERO or maybe 1 to 2 lbs of boost. The truck will not accelerate, but it just continues to cruise along. If I disengange the clutch, fully depress and release the throttle several times, the engine "comes to life", boost comes up, and away we go.



So, I took it to Dodge and they said, "oh, you need a new Injector Pump. " WRONG. First, I had this replaced about 75,000 miles ago under warranty with a newer version of the VP44. Second, I have 10 to 12 lbs of fuel pressure going to it at all times. Third, I have NO LOSS OF POWER except as noted above. So, I suggest the APPS and they run a diagnostic and say, "yep, that's it. " They put a new one on. $488. 00 later, I'm out the door. The next day, same problem.



Back to Dodge. Oh, you need a new turbo!



I'll be picking it up today WITHOUT a new turbo.



One other detail. I had this same dealer remove my TST box abot 15,000 miles ago as it seemed to be malfunctioning (maybe it wasn't the box after all). My truck and engine has about 178,000 miles.



Can anyone give me some other ideas on how to fix or what to look for?



Thanks all,



Gary

 

[16919]

Turn the key on and off 3 times, leave it on the 3rd time and check for codes. It will give you an idea as to what is wrong... ... ... ...

 

[JFaughn]

Did you get a copy of the work order ? any codes on the WO ?
Any codes now ?
Is it no longer under warranty I assume ?
If not then , your ready to find a good independent shop in your area , maybe some one here could give a good recommendation ?
I almost never put in parts with out testing , guesses are for where to start testing .
I would look at TPS , MAP fuel pressure [ after main pump ] before tells nothing about the main pump , only the lift pump .

 

[PC12Driver]

Maybe MAP sensor? The ECM won't add fueling without "seeing" boost.



Why are you so sure about it not being the VP? It's an electronic item, and anything electronic can give up the ghost at any time, regardless of age or how new of a design it is.

 

[hsmith]

Might need an APPS reset too.

 

[16919]

he's got 75,000 on the NEW vp... ...

 

[PVanderlugt]

he's got 75,000 on the NEW vp... .

Yep, looks like that's about right, I would say look for codes, but don't rule out the VP. constant fuel pressure helps but is no fix-all for the VP
Pete

 

[PCreel]

you might want to check your battery cables if you have a lot of (white dust) inside your cables replace them. the cables are responsible for a whole lot of complications if they are corroded i know it sounds stupid but if your pcm or any of your stuff is not getting the right voltage constantly you will have freaky problems

 

[Batphreak]

I was getting intermittent dead pedal like that for just over a year. Every time I thought I had it nailed down to a set of circumstances it would find a different time to do it. It ended up being the VP44, never threw a code, just had intermittent dead pedal, I'm guessing the first diagnosis was correct. The dead pedal is apparently the control board going bad, and when that goes nothing understands that something is wrong, so no code just an annoying problem, fuel pressure has no effect either.

 

[Wiredawg]

I've lost a Vp-44 and an APPS and sounds like an APPS going out. First symptom I was out on a trip pulling my 5er and was in a small town. Went to take off from a red light and the pedal went dead only idle. Only the mighty Cummins could move a GCVW of 27K Lbs around the block. I managed to reset the APPS and get going again. Did it a few more times. I know this is a pretty common problem when small town Dodge dealers stock them, $388.



let us know what it turns out to be.



Wiredawg

 

[SnoKing]

Well when it dies and you install a new VP44 to get it running again, then you will know!!!!



Mine always had good fuel pressure and got hard starting in hot weather, then six months later, it got dead pedal a couple times, and thru a 216 code at 52k. It has a new VP44 and runs great and is getting better mileage. SNOKING

 

[John - K5AWO]

Same problem here. I put up with that dead pedal syndrome for two years and finally got PO'd and bit the big one. Installed a new VP44 last week. Problem solved... .

 

[OL RATLR]

Same problem here. I put up with that dead pedal syndrome for two years and finally got PO'd and bit the big one. Installed a new VP44 last week. Problem solved... .

Same as above. Installed my second VP 44 last week.





Thanks to Blue Ridge Diesel Injection for great service.

 

[RPhillips]

I just found this subject. I have the same problem, da. . I keyed the ignition for the codes and got the following. P-PCU and P-1693. does anyone know what this is telling me? Thanks, Roy

 

[BigMo]

I picked up the truck yesterday after they did further diagnosis. Remember that they had already installed the APPS? That didn't solve the problem, they reset all the codes, the new codes did not show the need for a VP44, but indicated I need a new turbocharger!?



I brought the truck home WITHOUT a new turbo. I can't afford to keep tossing new parts into this thing, just hoping that dodge is right.

 

[Wiredawg]

Sorry, bad info

Sorry, Kinda late in the thread to realize I misread the original post... I agree it's the VP44. Mine had hard starting, had lots of white smoke and would go dead in the in the same RPM range. I took mine to Cummins first and they correctly diagnosed it as bad VP44 (cost about $50) quoted me about $1,900 to replace it. Dodge dealer reached the same conclusion and replaced it under warranty.



Sorry about the bad info and good luck w/ your rig.



Wiredawg

 

[GiesJ]

I am seeing the same symptoms as you. If I put in the clutch and pop the throttle it takes several tries but seems to work loose and I have throttle control. I have the Death code and companion code for the VP44 going south but do NOT have a check engine light. Also, I am seeing 12-12. 5 psi at idle. I was hoping that something was related to the APPS but I do not see any codes related to that.

Since I am on my 5th VP currently, I am hopefull that I do not need to replace this one as it has not seen a wire tap. However, everything I have read points to this (the VP) being my problem. I hope you find the fix for your truck.

 

[DMannon]

I've had the same problem with mine... driving down a grade, foot barely on the pedal and then it goes dead. Pull over, turn off the key, pump the pedal, and it starts. Checked the codes and got an 0121 (APPS voltage).



I read a while back, I think it was Gary, about pumping the pedal back and forth to 'clean' the contacts in the apps as being a temporary fix. I did that for about 5 minutes, and have had no problems in 5K miles.



Also, when you had the APPS replaced at the dealership, do you know if they calibrated the new one? I know this sounds kind of 'duh', but it was a dealership...



Do a search of thread titles on APPS and you'll find a lot of info, sometimes conflicting. One says the APPS must be calibrated electrically:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...-2002/182021-how-reset-apps-electrically.html

Another says that manual trans can be set without a volt meter:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...smission-1998-5-2002/163898-apps-install.html



My advice would be try the pedal pumping first, then check electrical connections... everywhere. Bad grounds or moist connectors can cause a raft of problems in an electronic system. Then check to see if the APPS is calibrated. If all that checks out, it could be your VP.



Just check the easy stuff first...

 

[AndrewGray]

I agree with DMannon. Make sure your APPS is calibrated right. If it is then you are in need of VP. Im in the same boat. Im livin with my dead pedal for now. I figure if its dying Im goin to run it till its dead. Im goin to have one on hand and in my truck so when it goes I can get it on right away.

 

[Sky]

Well think this might be my problem. Every morning when I start the truck and take off I pretty much have dead peddle until the truck warms up after about 5 min of driving or if I let it idle for 5-10 min. I have 204k on the truck and at 99k I got a new vp44. Sounds like I might need another one. Go figure just when I put it up for sale..... I checked my Fuel pressure and at idle im at 9 and under a load it goes to about 5-6.