Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Dealer installed lift pump

[jeff77indy]

Those who have had the newer lift pump installed how has it held up?

I had the newer lift pump and a new injector pump put on by the dealer a year ago October and it looks like it is already going out.

What kind of pressure should I be seeing? I put a sensor and warning light on when the new pumps were installed last year. The lamp would light when driving but go out at idle. Took it to the dealer and had 11psi according to the computer at idle and was deemed correct. Did not check for wot pressure.

I've ran two 1st gens with no problems but this 24v is a POS.



Jeff

 

[isb360]

Hi Jeff,

Don't let the bad apple ruin the whole bucket. Electric pumps in general do better at pushing fuel rather than pulling it. So the design of the fuel system can be faulted just as much as the part quality. Notice that if you try to get a dealer-installed LP now, they will instead try to drop your tank and do the in-tank conversion, which as it turns out, is a miserable failure, but the principle of pushing fuel up to the engine is sound.



Even a LP that is on life support will generally show decent pressure at idle because demand for fuel at idle is negligible, thus reducing workload (I won't even entertain the argument that says in theory the pump is doing less work at WOT because the pressure head is being reduced).



11PSI at idle would worry me. Before i went to FASS II, I went through several stock LP's and they all delivered 14-16psi at idle. I am assuming that you have checked and replaced fuel filter as needed to ensure that is not your pinch point. Performance under pressure is far more critical than idle, especially since the majority (~70%) of the fuel cools the VP44 and is returned to the tank.



A warning light is kind of like a low oil pressure light... it comes on when you are in deep *****, but it's hard to get real world data on how your engine is doing. Same is true for low fuel pressure light. I would highly recommend that you invest in a proper FP gauge, either mechanical (my choice, less to go wrong), or electrical (advantage of no fuel running into cabin).



If you want to keep throwing LP's at it, please PM me and I have two new in the box that I can sell you. One is a Cummins pump and one is a Carter HP4600 7psi pump with relay that I bought from JEG's in anticipation of moving the pump to the frame rail. I ended up with FASS HPFP, so did not need it.



Additional things you can do to ease the job of any pump you have on your truck is to invest in one of the "big line" kits that are out there. Most kits eliminate the very restrictive banjo fittings that are found in stock system with nice 90-degree AN-syle elbows. The kits often include increase ID fuel line. Vulcan performance is one source for such kits. Beyond the "big line" kits, there is something called a Draw Straw (also from Vulcan) which modifies OEM fuel sending module located in the tank to dramatically reduce the restriction it imposes on the system.



Summary: Yeah, it ain't as pretty as the old 12v set up, but the aftermarket has responded with many quality solutions that, in general, also support very large power gains as a side benefit.



Sorry for the dissertation. Hope this helps.



Tim

 

[jeff77indy]

Tim:

Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty much over the rant.

The dealer installed the in tank LP last year.

If this is the LP can I still go with an after market LP? Do I need to take the pump out of the tank? Or should I have another in tank LP installed and go with the big line kit. I am ordering a mechanical fuel pressure gauge today, I know to late, should have could have.

This is the wifes truck, I only drive mat be 10% of the time. Last time was 2 weeks ago pulling a 20 ft gooseneck 300 miles round trip to pick up a lathe and I did not notice any thing.

Her account of the symptoms are poor power going up hill at 40-45 MPH, I've changed the fuel and air filters. When I had the fuel filter removed I bumped the starter and seemed to have good fuel flow, no idea of pressure though.

When the pumps went last year she did not notice these symptoms and the injector pump started to fail. So I am kinda gun shy with paying that bill then.

Thanks.

Jeff

 

[jeff77indy]

Will here is an update.

I drove this truck this evening.

It seems like it is stumbling when keeping the mph at 40-45 going uphill at operating temperature. Does not seem like a pump or fuel problem to me not in the sense of a 1st gen or tractor.

I've ordered a mech. pressure gauge.

If I wanted to do the big line kit is it possible with the in tank LP? Also in the future I may want to go with a FASS can this be done with the pump in the tank or will I need to pull the in tank LP and replace what was done to install it?



Thanks

Jeff

 

[Jeff Knight]

Hey Jeff, You will have to remove the in tank pump to install a different system. The FASS is a good pump and there are others out there. I went with the Walbro pump from Glacier Diesel Power. I bought my tank module off of e-bay to replace my in tank pump. There are also some mechanical pumps out there. Good luck. Jeff

 

[jeff77indy]

Jeff;

Thanks for the reply. Just what I was looking for.

If I dodge this bullet, I'll have the gauges installed then get the aftermarket pump I decide on along with what parts I need to swap the in tanks pump out when it looks bad.

Jeff

 

[Moose Truck]

Read this...

http://www.glacierdieselpower.com/images/PDFs/IntankPumpExposed.pdf



Seems that the in tank pump might fuel a stock 3rd gen CP3, But not a VP44 :{ I went with a GDP Pump and it works great!! Richard has great service too! If only I can get my decal Moose00

 

[isb360]

Jeff,

I didn't want to seem like I was dooming you to more expensive aftermarket solutions, but it seems to be concensus opinion that the Dodge dealer installed in-tank pump solution is no better than trying to bail the Titanic out with a turkey baster (HAPPY THANKSGIVING, BTW). Even the local dealer will unofficially acknowledge that it is a weak solution, but they are bound to what D-C says they need to do, ALTHOUGH, my friend gave the local dealer a Cummins LP and they installed it no questions asked.



I am happy with my FASS HPFP, but was on the fence about which way to go for a long time due to variety of quality solutions available. In the end I went with FASS maybe not because it will ultimately prove to be better than the Walbro, but because a lot of TDR members have used it with good results.



Having said all that, do your research and come to a conclusion that you are happy with.



Tim

 

[wcoomes]

Jeff,



You might give this guy a call, he's not too far from you.



Jessup, Jim

Diesel Tune Up

4015 County Rd 150 S

North Vernon, IN

Bus: 812-873-7618



He solved my lift pump problem last week.

 

[jeff77indy]

I took my '89 to Jessup for it's new pump. Very good cummins mechanic. He had a ton of stories from cummins and a wealth of knowledge. One of the enginneers from cummins showed up the day I was there, he was retired but was in on the original Dodge Cummins project.

I'm going to take it to the dealer on Tuesday since they put the in tank pump on last year, If it isn't the pump or of it only starting to go, I'll either go to Jessup or install an after market replacement lke the FASS or similar and go with a big line kit and the draw straw since I'll have to pull the tank to get the old pump out and replace the tank module.

I have a pressure gauge on the way and it will be installed as soon as it hits the door.

 

[jeff77indy]

Fass Hpfp

Jeff,

I didn't want to seem like I was dooming you to more expensive aftermarket solutions, but it seems to be concensus opinion that the Dodge dealer installed in-tank pump solution is no better than trying to bail the Titanic out with a turkey baster (HAPPY THANKSGIVING, BTW). Even the local dealer will unofficially acknowledge that it is a weak solution, but they are bound to what D-C says they need to do, ALTHOUGH, my friend gave the local dealer a Cummins LP and they installed it no questions asked.



I am happy with my FASS HPFP, but was on the fence about which way to go for a long time due to variety of quality solutions available. In the end I went with FASS maybe not because it will ultimately prove to be better than the Walbro, but because a lot of TDR members have used it with good results.



Having said all that, do your research and come to a conclusion that you are happy with.



Tim

Tim;

Thanks for the input. I have been planning on another pump since they installed this one last year. Truck was dead and had to do somthing, maybe not the best thing had to have it going.

I like the looks and specs of the FASS HPFP, been looking at prices on these and the Uulcan line offerings.

Did you mount your FASS at the tank? I also see you installed the Vulcan draw straw.

The FASS HPFP does not have the extra filtering has this been a problem.

Thanks for letting me pick your brain.

Jeff

 

[Jeff Knight]

Hey Jeff, Vulcan has a cleanable in line filter you can put in front of the FASS. I put one in front of my Walbro. They offer 2 different sizes. I also put Vulcan's 1/2" fuel line from the filter to the VP44. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving. Jeff

 

[jeff77indy]

Hey Jeff, Vulcan has a cleanable in line filter you can put in front of the FASS. I put one in front of my Walbro. They offer 2 different sizes. I also put Vulcan's 1/2" fuel line from the filter to the VP44. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving. Jeff

Jeff;

Any reason you went with the Walbro unit over the FASS unit? Also I am guessing the pump is mounted on the frame near the fuel tank.

I've been looking at the Walbro also, like the fact that a spare pump can be had for less $ so an extra pump could be carried on long trips.

Which pump did you opt for? This truck is stock and will stay pretty much that way, maybe larger exhaust and a different air breather assy.

Was the installation pretty straight forward? Did you go with a draw straw and a big line kit with this pump?

Thanks for the info.

Jeff

 

[Jeff Knight]

Hey Jeff, I went with the Walbro for the reasons you mentioned plus its quiet. The install is very easy. I have the 392 kit. It comes with everything you need. It's mounted back by the tank. No I didn't go with a draw straw because my truck is basically stock. Stage 2 injectors and a ADD. I put a stock tank module in place of the in tank pump. Icut the screen out of the puck that snaps on the bottom of the module. Thats why I put a filter in line before the pump. Hope this helps. Jeff

 

[Jeff Knight]

Hey Jeff, Check out this thread. There are some pictures of my lnstall on page 2. http://www.tdr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164503&highlight=walbro+pump

 

[TSkeen]

Hi I found this thread after searching for sometime . I need some advice. I had the FASS 95/95 with big lines installed to help with pressue which it did. The shop who did the work, left the in tank (fix) from dodge in the tank. truck ran fine 100 plus miles home down to 1/4 tank of fuel. HARD START added fuel regained prime truck runs fine. need full use of tank. Any ideas? thanks?

 

[Jeff Knight]

I would think you need to remove the in tank pump for the FASS to work properly. I removed mine and haven't had any problems. I do have the WAlbro pump and not the FASS. Jeff

 

[TSkeen]

thanks for your input,and I agree,along with many others. My question now is How far down I can run my fuel level with out risk of loosing prime?

 

[jeff77indy]

Hey Jeff, Check out this thread. There are some pictures of my lnstall on page 2. http://www.tdr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164503&highlight=walbro+pump

Jeff; Nice installation.

I've ordered all the components to install the Wabro on my '01.

I found a tank module on e-bay. But I was thinking could a drawstraw be installed on my current module inplace of the LP? Hate to bid alot on one if I could go this route. I remember you replaced your's.

Also have gauges on the way. I'm getting the same dash pod, how do you like yours? The wife didn't want the a pillar pod so these looked good to me.

Jeff

 

[LowFly]

Hi I found this thread after searching for sometime . I need some advice. I had the FASS 95/95 with big lines installed to help with pressue which it did. The shop who did the work, left the in tank (fix) from dodge in the tank. truck ran fine 100 plus miles home down to 1/4 tank of fuel. HARD START added fuel regained prime truck runs fine. need full use of tank. Any ideas? thanks?

Did your dealer bypass the intank pump? I would assume so since you are still running... . pressure would be all over the place with the FASS drawing through the intank pump. One thing i would check is to see how high the draw tube (If installed) is off the bottom of the tank. If its more than the width of 2 Quarters stacked..... its too high.