dealer tricks and getting the best deal

[Ramrod]

Can you guys give me a clue on how I can purchase a new 3rd gen CTD and get a great deal. I speced one out the other day at a local dealer and with 3000 back in discounts he was telling me I would pay 40 g's. My 96 2500 was only 28500.



Is getting a internet price the way to go? What's up with all of those deals?



I will be ordering soon and want to be an educated consumer.



I see guys posting prices in the 32 -38 range. I am getting something totally loaded wether its a 2500 or 3500srw.



Thanks in advance for all the advice

 

[rbattelle]

It's been my (limited) experience that the #1 thing to do is visit as many dealerships as possible. Tell each one of them what the other offers were; be up front about the fact that you are shopping around for the best deal, and don't be afraid to just walk away. Took me about 2 months to find the right dealer, but it was more than worth it.



Other excellent advice can be had at www.edmunds.com.

 

[klenger]

Work from invoice, not MSRP.



Don't accept any add-ons like scotch guard or paint protection.



You can find the invoice prices for the truck and options on most of the internet car websites like edmunds.com or cars.com.



I am also shopping for a 3rd gen, and hope to buy at around invoice less any rebates.



Also, join your local Farm Bureau. In AZ, it's $35 / year and you get an additional $500 discount. You have to be a member for 30 days to get the discount.



Don't waste time negotiating with dealers who play games.



Know what you want and stick to it. Many dealers don't understand the options available.



Here is an Excel spreadsheet that I worked up with MSRP and invoice pricing on $3500's. You can modify it to suit your needs. http://www.klenger.net/misc/2004-dodge.xls

 

[rbattelle]

Oh yeah, and remember: chances are you know more about the options available than the salesman. Don't get railroaded into a truck you don't want because the salesman tells you "that's not possible".



Perfect example: I had a dealer tell me there's no such thing as a 3500 SRW SWB truck, even though he had some on the lot and was able to show me in his manual that it was available. Check out this thread:



No SWB SRW



He actually opened the sales guide and I was able to point right to the SWB SRW config on the 3500, and he looked me in the eye and said: "well, this book is a few months old". Turned out the morons didn't know how to operate the Dodge ordering computer.



In the end, I found a salesman who didn't know anything about the options, but was willing to admit to it and work with me. I found every last salesman I talked to completely clueless, which is fine if you're willing to admit you're clueless. The problem comes when they refuse to admit they know nothing, and will spout off anything and claim it's absolute fact.

 

[Mike Ellis]

If you are trading in, never let them know you want to trade until you have already squeezed the best deal possible for the truck you are interested in. Then tell them, "Guess I'll trade my old truck in too. " They will give you some BS like, "Well all we can give now is wholesale blah blah blah", but in truth they will NEVER give you more than wholesale.



If you put in the trade up front, that gives them a chance to play the numbers game on you, if you want more for the trade-in, "Weelll, maybe I can go another $500 but my boss won't let me do it unless I add in the super clear coat... "



If you aren't keeping your old truck, you can always do better selling it yourself. In either case, you won't get any $$$ for all your accessories as the dealers and most buyers prefer a clean stock truck. If you can take them off and sell them on E-bay or to TDR members, you might get back a couple thousand $$$ that you would lose otherwise.



Final thought - the same truck can be bought much cheaper sometimes down here in Texas / Oklahoma due to the volume they sell. There have been guys who have saved money flying down and buying the truck here, then driving back north.

 

[Tomeygun]

after reading this thread, it was like dangling a carrot in front of me, I just have put my two cents in...



It is amazing to hear what some sales people have gone to some of you, therefore make you very cautious, which I can see why now.



Most that has been said here is accurate, BUT telling the other dealers what you can do at the OTHER dealer will only make that salesperson mad and then he/she will start to lie about what he/she can really sell the truck for, then you go back to the dealer with the lowest price only to find they lied to you, mostly because you backed them into a corner, and they had nothing to lose, why not lie?? -- we all pay the same, the difference is the profit we want!!



I would say that 50% of the customers that i talk to start by LYING TO ME !! that is they say they have 15k for their trade down at "smith dodge", but yet they take 14500 from me, and buy a truck ... .



I WONDER WHY???? is it because they never actually had 15k????



now who is lying??, frankly I don't want any trade-ins, so it doesn't break my heart if you keep it, and sell it out-right



Let me try to sum this up with a math lesson :



take the MSRP - minus the destination, then times 3%-- that is holdack -- money that comes from dodge AFTER THE SALE...



now take invoice - then minus holdback -



there is your true cost on the truck to the dealership --- then add the profit that the dealership needs (VARIES FROM DEALER TO DEALER)



like everyone here knows, I ADD $0. 00 TO MY COST, frankly I don't care what my dealership makes, We have 18 dealerships, and 5 or so make $0 a year after cost/wages/etc --- whop-tee-doo, the others make millions



I still get my money for selling the truck...





FINAL THOUGHT - IF YOU DONT GET 3% UNDER THE INVOICE YOU ARE PAYING TOO MUCH, simple huh?



you all want the truth, there it is... I HOPE THAT NO ONE INCLUDES ME IN THE TYPICAL "LYING SALESMAN" CATEGORY



It gets a little older reading salespeople (me) getting trashed on these boards about trickery and lying (i admit has lessened a lot, thanks for that)



P. S. I will be more than happy to dispell any myths, and any questions I WILL MORE THAN HAPPY TO ANSWER

 

[MO'Donnell]

What TomeyGun said.



When I ordered my truck, I was handed the print-out of the build-up sheet with the invoice price circled, and the hold-back hand written and told "you pay invoice, I make this much, sound fair?" I took the deal, since he was the best price by far, and a single dealership - he doesn't have 17 other stores to average his profits over Very few dealers will dip into holdback. One other thing that TomeyGun forgot to add - there are a few things that the dealer gets invoiced for that do not show up on the "invoice pricing" web sites like KBB & Edmunds.



-Charges for fuel

-Charges for the customer mailings

-Charges for the regional marketing



Good luck!

 

[rbattelle]

My $.02 more

As far as shopping around and telling your salesman that you're doing it, I think it's absolutely appropriate. It's a free market economy, and no matter what dealers want to believe, they are in DIRECT competition with every other dealer in the country. There seems to be this desire in the dealership business to completely ignore the fact that they are competing with others, which is why they get angry when you tell them you're shopping other dealers: they know you figured out the "game" and you're likely to get away cheap. Dealers will be dragged kicking and screaming into the competitive free market, because for so many years people didn't shop multiple dealerships and didn't have resources like the internet to help them research.



Me, when I shop dealers I always always ask for a copy of their worksheet, and I take that along with all the other worksheets I get from other dealers with me. I lay all that out on the table up front, to show I'm being honest about things. Of course, I think I'm the exception: most people just lie about the other offers.



This game they play where they try to deny or ignore that there are other dealers out there is annoying. The dealership/salesman I bought from was one of the few who was willing to accept that I was shopping around, and that I had done my research.



No insult intended to anyone here... flame away!

 

[JStieger]

tomeygun - good reply from the perspective of the selling end! Being treated fairly is certainly a 2-way street.



I like to deal with the fleet manager only. They deal with selling in volume so they will (usually) sell at or less than invoice anyway. The fleet managers I have dealt with have been at the dealership for a long period of time and they definitely do not miss the fun-and-games of their previous lot salespersons days.



The dealer and/or salesperson sometimes gets "hidden" $$ incentives when they reach a certain sales milestone. You never know that you might be the one to break them over this milestone.



Look to purchase in the last week of the month or year when the focus on unreached sales targets and milestones is greater.



Trust your gut - don't be afraid or feel guilty to walk away!

 

[Tomeygun]

Originally posted by MO'Donnell

What TomeyGun said.



there are a few things that the dealer gets invoiced for that do not show up on the "invoice pricing" web sites like KBB & Edmunds.



-Charges for fuel

-Charges for the customer mailings

-Charges for the regional marketing



Good luck!

Thank you for pointing that out - i forgot to mention that, and thats why you always ask to see actual invoice, not the fake "shipping order"



by the way, the $500 bonus is available now, and who doesn't like an extra discount ?!?

 

[Briman]

-Charges for fuel ($13. 00)

-Charges for the customer mailings ($20. 00)

-Charges for the regional marketing (B45-$210. 00 & T45-$275. 00)



These items were all on my invoice and I paid for it. This was my case but it must be on all truck invoices? Albeit it was only 8 gallons of fuel and the dealer provided a full tank.



OK, I reread your post and realized you said it did'nt show up on internet sites, sorry. So for the record this is about what it costs if your doing internet research.

 

[Grayhackle]

It took me a little over 2 months to buy my truck. I carried around the "invoice" sheet of the truck that I wanted to 5 dealers in the Salt Lake area. Emailed Dave Smith Dodge in Idaho. Was told that I couldn't get that truck for that price a couple of times. Had some pretty lively discussions several times. Was offered some good deals on a "standard" not SLT. Some salesmen take it personally. Their favorite is they have the best service dept. If they do, I can take the truck there no matter where I bought it!! Show a lot of patience and get what you want. I drove a 90 ctd for 12 years, so I don't change trucks that often. I can't see this one lasting 12 years.



Anyway, when I got the out the door price as low as I could, I got the dealer to thow in a Willmore tube step that is really nice!



Good luck and remember, be patient and don't sign anything until you are sure you have the truck you want.

 

[Grayhackle]

Forgot to ad that I totally missed the farmers $500 discount. Didn't know about it then!! Dealer won't tell you because you have to wait 30 days after joining up!!

 

[Tomeygun]

Re: My $.02 more

Originally posted by rbattelle



Me, when I shop dealers I always always ask for a copy of their worksheet, and I take that along with all the other worksheets I get from other dealers with me. I lay all that out on the table up front, to show I'm being honest about things. Of course, I think I'm the exception: most people just lie about the other offers.



No insult intended to anyone here... flame away!

I think that is a great way to shop,



DO ME ONE FAVOR, make me last on list of dealers to shop,



Because I will sell you a truck EVERYTIME... You see, that last dealer always wins... there job is simple, beat the other price, how hard is that?? unfair for the first one? yes!



If you came in with a losing offer, but said you would buy today, and the other dealer was one that I hated, you bet your bottom dollar I will take a lose just to spite the other dealer...



SOOOO , If I am LAST on the List - hooray for me, if not ... bummer

 

[rbattelle]

Well, that is one flaw in the system... usually the last dealer you visit wins. I suppose the best way would be to re-visit each one at least once to give them a chance to best the others.



As it turns out, I bought mine from the 2nd-to-last dealer I visited. But that was because the last dealer assured me he couldn't do any better, and the other guy was closer.

 

[WyoJim]

Why don't we just make tomeygun our first and last stop when buying a new one. Save all the hassel and get the best deal

 

[Tomeygun]

Originally posted by WyoJim

Why don't we just make tomeygun our first and last stop when buying a new one. Save all the hassel and get the best deal

aawwww, shucks, talk about making a guy blush



then I could afford all those DD products and a new turbo, and have one diesel for racing, one for regular use, etc



man, why didn't I think of this before ?!?!?!?



at the minimum I hope to educate everyone on how to buy a truck, from me or your dealer. . Heck i love giving out juicy secrets, makes it more interesting for other dealers, hehehehe

 

[klenger]

While I would want to buy at the lowest price, I also would prefer to buy from the dealer where I end up getting myservice work done. If they can be within a couple hundred $, that's close enough for me. Also eliminates driving hundreds of miles or maybe even airfare to pick up at a distant dealer.

 

[Grayhackle]

Not true tomeygun, I bought mine from the first dealer. He did have to come down some to close the deal. In the ~ 2 months I was looking , the truck I really wanted moved from Elko to Provo.

VIN # was on the invoice. Dealer had to trade to get the truck to Tooele. Had 134 miles on it when I bought it.

 

[ssanders60]

Your best deal in New truck

If your new truck sells for 40,000

take 12 % percent of it off the top which

would be $4800. (markup)

Then $ 2500 your rebate

Total $7300 off the list price.



That leaves your dealer with $1600 of

what's known as holdback money (4 % of gross)

It's up to you on how much you want him to

make, on my deal I allowed him to make it but

did not pay anything other than the tag

and sales tax. You can sell your old truck

like a hot cake if you'll just clean it up

and furnish some kind of service record.

It's true, the dealers just don't want your

old truck if it has 100,000 or better miles on

it. In my deal I got 2 years of free lube

service and a full tank of fuel.

It's a pity that dealers don't try to market

used cars, but I guess they don't have the

real estate to hold the used cars except a few

newer low mileage cars.



Go to Kelley bluebook and build your Dodge,

it will also give you the invoice price, I

can assure you it's right on the money. At least

you'll know what you are doing.





'03 2500 Ram SLT, 4x4 CTD, Quad, 373, 48re