Dealers, a complete rip off

[DieselFiend]

All I have to say is no wonder the big three is going belly up in this country. I called around to 4 different dealerships to get the new Transmission TSB to lock out OD in Tow/Haul mode. They all want around $90 to plug the OBD in, make the flash, then send me on my way. All claim it takes an hours worth of labor. Knowing full well it only takes 10 to 15 minutes to do this, I asked one guy to break it down for me. Costs $15 for the TSB itself. Don't ask me what I'm actually paying for there. Then $75 for the alleged hours worth of labor. Of course I was denied when I asked if I could watch the entire process just for my own piece of mind.



Dealers are a complete rip off. Now they won't get any money from me at all.

 

[MStrain]

That is just sad, they are that greedy that they want $90 to do next to nothing instead of just taking care of you. Isn't that almost considered a warranty issue?

 

[PKozlowski]

I asked for a fuel filter change on my 01.

$90!!!!!! I almost crapped my pants.

$90 for what! It's a maybe 5 minute job.



I agree, what a rip. They don't get it.

If they lowered the prices they're profits would go thru

the roof!

But no. they won't to make the years profit off of YOU

and that one sale. They're just greedy idiots.

 

[jelag]

Take a minute and think about this..... Someone has to write the paper work, listen to you..... someone else has to go out and get the truck if they can find it in the lot... . move it inside and later after the job is done they have to take the truck out and park it, put away the tools, and finish the paper work.....

And all the time their listening to you bi**h about how much it costs.....

I had a guy in who needed some electrical work... . I guessed over the phone that the changes he needed for his pacbrake and air bags, and air horns would take us 15 min or so... . I quoted him a half hour..... 30 bucks... . when he made it in I found he'd hacked it..... we took 1 1/2 hours to clean up his mess and do the changes... . I only charged him the 30 because that's how I feel... By the time I pay the wages, health insurance, and the cost of the floor space to do the work..... I lost money... . My health insurance costs for 30 people exceed 100K a year..... You tell me what to do. .

 

[Jeepr]

A little off subject, but I wasn't aware they ever delivered a software update for the 2005's to lock out overdrive? They did? Do you have a tsb number?

 

[AKaiser]

I don't like to pay it either, but I realize what level of expense a Dealer has to put up with that an independent doesn't. What I don't like, however, is attitude and ineptitude.

 

[TGriffith]

I asked for a fuel filter change on my 01.

$90!!!!!! I almost crapped my pants.

$90 for what! It's a maybe 5 minute job.



I agree, what a rip. They don't get it.

If they lowered the prices they're profits would go thru

the roof!

But no. they won't to make the years profit off of YOU

and that one sale. They're just greedy idiots.

I had my truck in for some warranty work at a dealship in the Richmond VA area and they mentioned that I was due for a fuel filter change, I asked how much out of curiousity and they said $175!!!

No thanks I'll do it myself.

 

[rbattelle]

I got this theory that most dealers charge based on the perceived difficulty of a job rather than the actual difficulty.

For example, my wife has a 2002 Honda Civic. The first time I changed the alternator it took me 40 minutes (having never changed alternators on a Civic before). The second time it took me less than 20 minutes.

At the dealer one day, I asked them what the labor costs on an alternator change for that car are, and to my horror they quoted 4 hours!

But you see, most people think an alternator is an expensive, difficult job. They expect to pay over $400 to have one replaced.

Dealers are only happy to "meet customer expectations".

Ryan

 

[Grizzly]

I asked for a fuel filter change on my 01.

$90!!!!!! I almost crapped my pants.

$90 for what! It's a maybe 5 minute job.

I agree, what a rip. They don't get it.

If they lowered the prices they're profits would go thru

the roof!

But no. they won't to make the years profit off of YOU

and that one sale. They're just greedy idiots.

Some of this lighter, no brainer work we can and should do ourselves, such as changing filters, belts, brakes. Some work, such as engine, transmission, power steering and wheel alignments, we are are not equipped to do and we must depend on the people with the know how and tools to do. We can also choose who we want to do the work. We don't have to go the dealer, unless it's warranty work. I do as much as I can on all my vehicles.



jeleg has a good point here. Shops have overhead to pay, it not just 10 minutes worth of work for one man. They have to pay the rent on the building, turn on the lights every day. Have you checked out the price on tools lately?

 

[BHolm]

I don't go there for anything but warranty work. No offense Jelag, but in most cases these guys are a bunch of clowns.



I bought this '06 the other day. I wanted the new tires I had bought for the Megacab switched over to the new truck as part of the deal. The salesman was also going to have them do an oil change as this was a fresh trade that had not been through the shop yet. It took them almost 2. 5 hours for two guys to swap tires, and one guy to do the oil change.



I am a cub scout den leader. The four boys in my group are each ten years old. We/they rotated tires on my truck as part of a badge project one afternoon. They had the job done in under 45 minutes, ten year olds, no hoists, no air wrenches. Tell me how great the dealers are



I have done well with the sales end of my dealer, pretty satisfied. Everytime I use service though, they screw up. The last one was the driveline vibe in the Hemi truck. It was bad enough to vibrate the dash. The first trip in they "checked" the u-joints and pronounced it fixed. No updates during the whole day they had it and then returned it to me as is. Second trip the service manager rides along, affirms the obvious vibe and sends it back into the shop. They discover that one of the yokes is bent while replacing the joints. They warn me that they couldn't get one of the clips back in fully and have a new shaft ordered. I am told that if it starts vibrating real bad to pull over and have it towed It took a full week for the new shaft to show up. So that is three trips, over two weeks time and a $100 deductible to get it fixed. I could have dropped it off at a driveline shop for a few hours, had it fixed right the first time, and probably for not much more than the deductible at the dealer.



Again, defend dealers shops all you want but my general experience suggests that most are incompetant and overpriced.

 

[PKozlowski]

If the dealers would learn if they dropped they're unrealistic prices they would make more money! If they did they'd be so busy they couldn't keep up.

 

[BillDriscoll]

I'd like to find out about this TSB for the 05's also. Dont see it listed. More info??

thanks

BillD
Pensacola, FL

 

[TFucili]

If the dealers would learn if they dropped they're unrealistic prices they would make more money! If they did they'd be so busy they couldn't keep up.

Yeah, like the two(insert nationality of choice)selling watermelons for less than they paid for them... but they're going to make it up in volume, right?



I don't think jelag is defending inept, incompetent, or dishonest dealers. Just like the people who drive these trucks, there are good and bad. Unless you have been in business you cannot comprehend the obscene amount of money it costs to just open the door on a daily basis. No matter how tight a ship you try to run, you sit down at the end of the month and shake your head in disbelief. My folks still own a piece of commercial property back east. It is 1. 75 acres with approx. 12K sq. ft. of plain-jane block buildings and some three sided outdoor storage on it. The property taxes alone are over $30,000!! Now, add heat/light/water/sewer/phone/security/insurance/local, county, and state fees/payroll/workers' comp/health care, etc. , etc. , etc...



Walk a mile in my shoes, as the saying goes.

 

[Sky]

Get this, a few weeks ago I called my guy down at the dealer told him my problem with my starter and needed it replaced. New starter was $696 plus labor which would be at least an hour so looking at like $800 for a starter replaced. He told me not to come here and directed me to a guy that rebuilds them. All said and done $165. So not all dealers are crooks, well at least not all service managers. I felt pretty good that day.

 

[Forrest Nearing]

all this crying and moaning about the dealer's overhead... well guess what, they're turning away money when they won't do a SIMPLE 10 minute job for less than one book hour! and just think how much time they waste on the phone or dealing with customers quoting them outrageous prices only to have the customer walk away and go get it done cheaper with better quality work.



dealers and salesmen are the two main reasons I refuse to buy a new truck (or even one that's still in warranty)

 

[TowPro]

Problem is your approaching getting this TSB done the wrong way. You really WANT the lockout part of the TSB, but you need to let them do the Diagnostics so they can tell you that you NEED the TSB.

A TSB always covers several different patches or fixes. What you need to do is find some of the other problems that the TSB fixes and go in and complain you have those symptoms. Even if they can't duplicate the problem they will hook up the Diag computer to check for codes. One of the first things they automatically do to fix problems is put the latest code in the ECM

Now what I hate is when the dealer charges more then factory time. The time allowance to reflash the ECM is . 4 hours. It sounds like they are charging you for a whole hour, plus I bet they turn around and charge Dodge . 4 hours as well as charging you.

I have had this problem with VW many times. They make up there own times and charge what they want if your paying for it.

I worked in the Auto world for 13 years including several years running my own shops. When you have a job come in, you look up how much time the job should take in a chilton manual, then that is what you charge. This time is longer then factory time, but the independent charges less per hour. Now I have worked for dealers that also used chilton manual times for "pay" jobs, but charged the higher dealer labor rates. Its a ripoff!

 

[AKaiser]

Get this, a few weeks ago I called my guy down at the dealer told him my problem with my starter and needed it replaced. New starter was $696 plus labor which would be at least an hour so looking at like $800 for a starter replaced. He told me not to come here and directed me to a guy that rebuilds them. All said and done $165. So not all dealers are crooks, well at least not all service managers. I felt pretty good that day.

The dealers who tell you to go somewhere cheaper, or are upfront about what they are going to charge, are at least giving you the option to go elsewhere, as they don't want that sector of the business. If they charged actual cost, more would go there, and it would take away time from doing the bigger money jobs they should be doing. Dealers who are advertising for service don't have enough work to do, so they make it up in labor, oil and filters upcharges. If I were a dealer, I would want a small, competent staff whose expertise is the mechanics of the vehicle, not changing oil and filters. That keeps my personnel expenses down, and keeps good customers in the shop even post-warranty. It costs the same for insurance, etc. regardless if a man makes $20K or $80K per year.

 

[TowPro]

Dealers who are advertising for service don't have enough work to do, so they make it up in labor, oil and filters upcharges. If I were a dealer, I would want a small, competent staff whose expertise is the mechanics of the vehicle, not changing oil and filters. That keeps my personnel expenses down, and keeps good customers in the shop even post-warranty. It costs the same for insurance, etc. regardless if a man makes $20K or $80K per year.

Oil and filter changes with good prices is called a "door buster". It gets customers into the shop, where a good Mechanic comes into play in finding other needed work while doing that oil change. While the oil is draining he/she should be looking around at things like disk brake pad sizes without pulling the wheels, state inspection stickers ready to expire, exhaust problems, bad belts and hoses, water pumps leaking, worn out tires, alignment problems, wiper blades, bulbs, etc. Just driving it into the shop he/she can check the AC (is it blowing cold?), Brake grinding, etc.

We used to open the garage on Saturdays (with a limited staff) and do just oil changes. We could find and schedule a good amount of work this way. We also kept a young mechanic doing drive up oil changes all week, while the car was in the bay the experienced mechanics would do the walk around inspection as well as keep an eye (and teach) the young mechanic. This type of community attitude can be kept healthy in a garage with a profit sharing scheme where everybody benefits from the total work of the shop.

Selling what the mechanics find is where a good (honest) service manager comes in. I believe the mechanic should not be selling the service. the mechanic should give the requirements to the service manager/service advisor who should prepare the estimates and sell the service. mean time the mechanic is working on the next job.

 

[AKaiser]

Oil and filter changes with good prices is called a "door buster". It gets customers into the shop, where a good Mechanic comes into play in finding other needed work while doing that oil change. While the oil is draining he/she should be looking around at things like disk brake pad sizes without pulling the wheels, state inspection stickers ready to expire, exhaust problems, bad belts and hoses, water pumps leaking, worn out tires, alignment problems, wiper blades, bulbs, etc. Just driving it into the shop he/she can check the AC (is it blowing cold?), Brake grinding, etc.



We used to open the garage on Saturdays (with a limited staff) and do just oil changes. We could find and schedule a good amount of work this way. We also kept a young mechanic doing drive up oil changes all week, while the car was in the bay the experienced mechanics would do the walk around inspection as well as keep an eye (and teach) the young mechanic. This type of community attitude can be kept healthy in a garage with a profit sharing scheme where everybody benefits from the total work of the shop.



Selling what the mechanics find is where a good (honest) service manager comes in. I believe the mechanic should not be selling the service. the mechanic should give the requirements to the service manager/service advisor who should prepare the estimates and sell the service. mean time the mechanic is working on the next job.

I'm not knocking a good shop. It just seems there are so few, as it's difficult to keep good help. Guys on TDR are more "in tune" with what their trucks are doing, and we probably catch problems before the average consumer, who probably SHOULD rely on his/her dealer or independent mechanic to keep an eye/ear/nose on the vehicle during routine maintenance.



It's really easy to forget that 90 percent of the population didn't grow up working on/around vehicles. I grew up on a farm, and have been in the military (National Guard) for 15 years. Maintenance is second-natured.

 

[DieselFiend]

For all those interested in this TSB, the number is 21-006-07.