2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Death wobble again

[blmyachtsales]

Just got the death wobble for the second time, ended up of the road before I could stop (lucky there was nothing to hit). I have had the wobble in my stock suspention 1996 4wd 3500 5spd before. Put on a new track bar and lukes links on every tie rod end. Problem cured for a while though the front end was still very sloppy. This second time was very bad, occured at 45 mph while hitting a sereis of unavoidable bumps. I can't see this being just a steering stabilizer. I notice that the adjustment bolts and cams on the lower controll arms are set at very different settings (drivers side is at a 45% angle and passenger is veritcle, could this be a masive misalignment). We need to find a definitive solution here, other components on my front end are now destroyed thanks to the shimmy. Any one sell front end rebuild kits for our trucks, I am going to need all new bushings and tie rod ends? Any advice is apreciated.

 

[jtwcummins]

Sounds like it. search for alignment and there is a good explanation and specs for aligning these trucks. You are getting caster wobble, both the bottom trailing arm offsets should be at zero

 

[jtwcummins]

Found it good specs I naver had this problem, not yet anyway.



First of all let me say this: Damn all of you nice people for

wanting me to stay with aadt

Anyway, I'm not much for having a good short term memory, so bear

with me.

In a previous posting written by ???? (don't remember), they were

complaining about a shimmy in their Ram 4x4 after striking bumps in the

road.

I suggested that the front end alignment has either too little or

too much caster, thus causing a caster shimmy. He did not like my

response and changed his concern from a "shimmy" to a "bounce" (big

difference), and insisted it was the shocks. Maybe it is, I haven't

driven it. He also said the alignment "checked out". Here's the

problem:

Alignment programs (and service manuals I believe), give a wide

acceptable range for front caster on the 4x4 Rams. I believe the range

is 2 degrees to 5 degrees (if that's not correct, it's pretty close).

The problem occurs when the alignment tech (independent or dealer)

tells you that the measurements "checked out fine", just because they

were in this broad range of acceptance.

Caster readings that fall on either end of the scale are subject to

caster shimmy, even though they are "acceptable". I had to align some

30 trucks and attend a 9 hour "Dodge Ram Chassis Dynamics Diagnostics"

training session (fancy name, ehh?), before finding out that 3 degrees

to 4 degrees is the optimal caster setting for 4x4 Rams that eliminates

caster shimmy.

Below I will post what specifications I set Ram trucks to. First

I want to give a little more info on correct Ram alignments so you can

see if you had a job well done,

The eccentrics on the lower control arms ARE NOT for individual

wheel caster adjustments (even though our alignment machine says they

are). The eccentric sleeves in the upper ball joints are for adjusting

individual camber and total cross caster (difference in caster between

two front wheels). This is why replacement eccentrics are positionable

in eight different ways.

Once camber and cross caster are attained with the eccentrics, the

lower control arm eccentrics are then used to swing the caster readings

into specifications. The two eccentrics must be swung in the SAME

direction in EQUAL amounts. If they are not, it will create a setback

condition (one front wheel further forward than the other).

FYI - Comparing between the two front wheels, caster will cause a

pull to the smaller value and camber will cause a pull to the larger

value. A truck set up with caster pulling in one direction and camber

pulling in the other direction, can lead to a wandering truck; even

though it is "in specifications"!!!!!!

If the eccentrics on the lower control arms of your truck are not

pointing the same direction, the alignment was done incorrectly and the

axle was "twisted" or "forced" into position to attain the acceptable

values (seen them from the factory this way, go figure).

A correct alignment will set the truck up with a slight negative

cross caster (truck has slight pull to left) to compensate for right

hand road crown. Camber will be equal side to side slightly on the

negative side. This will help maintain acceptable camber when hauling

heavy loads, as the truck tends to lift in the front when towing.

Camber will then fall slightly positive when towing.

Just because the alignment shop says "it's in specifications", that

does not mean it is set up for proper performance and handling!!!!!!!!!



Specifications (my personal settings for every Ram I align): all specs

below are in degrees.





Left Wheel Right Wheel

-------------- ----------------



Caster 3. 2 3. 5

Cross Caster -. 3



Camber -. 10 -. 10

Cross Camber 0. 0



Toe - standard specs, (maybe a little out if you tow a lot, they will

pull in as the front end lifts up).



Brent

ASE Certified

Gold Certified Chrysler tech





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[blmyachtsales]

Thanks for the info jtwcummins, what you say and what I saw make sense. I dropped the truck off at a recomended alignment shop with your specs. I will post results and name of the shop when done.

 

[daveshoe]

Very nice. I am saving this one. I will add that my '02 has the most even tire wear of any truck that I have ever owned. No cupping or feathering at all with 25000 miles

 

[DCTECH]

See TSB 19-05-96, some trucks had to add auxiliary steering damper kit P/N 4856304 to fix after checking track bar and factory installed damper, balljoints and tie rod ends, and checking alignment. Trucks would shimmy bad after hitting bump or pothole. Have installed several of these kits and fixed problem.

 

[jtwcummins]

As a note on the front trailing arms. Rancho makes a direct replacement for the weak factory units I was in 4 wheel accessoris and asked about track bars. Since these guys are Ford & Chevy limited and track bars mean different things he showed me the replacements. Big, heavy bolt ins, the red looks cool too. Look like the units that come with lift kits. They installed them and aligned truck to above specs for 280. 00.



I don't know the part number, but was happy to get rid of another weak link in the front suspension.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

Looks Like I am re specin'. Mine was great after the DSS and DT Track Bar but has now with bad rod ends and Pitman joint there has been a resurfacing of old time issues. I will re spec when I do all the rod ends and joints. Never had Death Wobble but am franticly trying to avoid it.

 

[RRotzal]

I agree with DCTECH I have experienced the death wobble on another make(GMC) 1 ton with straight axle if it's the kind of wobble that if your fingers were in the spokes of the steering wheel they'd be broken, then install steering damper and you will be very happy

 

[FreeBMW]

ditto... i had bad death wobble while crossing a set of uneven RR tracks near my house. Put the rancho rs5000 steering stablizer on as well as the rancho auxilarairy unit (2nd rs5000) & i can hit the tracks at WOT and it wont even THINK of wobbling!

 

[Dane]

Proper front end alignment by a good shop cured the wobble for me.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Do a search on death wobble and my user name and read the saga of my '96 gasser - the dual stabilizer TSB is NOT the solution.



Brian

 

[blmyachtsales]

OK here is what it took to fix the death wobble the second time. New u joints and ball joints, new shocks in front, steering stabilizer was good, also had an alignment to the specs that JTWCUMMINS found from brent above. Big difference. Seems to me the four contributing factors are caster, shocks, track bar, and good front end components if any two are out of whack you are suseptible to the DEATH WOBBLE. While I was at it I changed the eccentrick bolts and all suspention arm bolts, put in poly bushing and boxed the suspention arms fro stiffness.



One more thing I put a set of 255 85/16 cooper discoveries (the STT are discontinued) on the stock 96 rims and have decent clearance between, may get spacers to be safe though.



Curt at Macs Auto in Swansea was a huge help if you are around the MA area

Curt Neville / Macs auto 508-677-8776



Adam

96 3500, no more wobble

 

[NVR FNSH]

Based on my experience the biggest contributor is the caster setting - my '96 had the ball joints, unit bearings/wheel bearings, control arms, track bar replaced and the dual stabilizer TSB done. DealerS never re-aligned it, just marked the eccentrics and put it back to 'stock'. I increased the caster in my driveway and solved the problem after DC replaced all of the above under the extended warranty.



Brian

 

[CumminFast]

I replaced everything on my truck... . tie rods, ball joints, stabilizer shocks, and tires. Didn't fix death wobble. I installed DT trackbar and it fixed the problem. That is your problem... . the stock- style curved track bar is junk... get a DT if you want to fix the problem. I know... . I have spent 2k trying to fix this crap.

 

[SBates]

Hello everone at TDR. I'm new to TDR. Just got my pass today. Looks like a wonderful, informative place. On the death wobble, please check tire balance. Had DW on CJ (yes, totally differant animal), and after replacing various parts and getting alignment checked, did the balance thing and that cured problem. I do not have my diesel Ram yet, but soon. Joined TDR to get input on better years, 12 valve vs 24, what to look for in a used (looking at 96-2001) trucks and so forth. Where to go on TDR for such.

 

[Mike Ellis]

Maybe I am confusing the symptoms of "death wobble", but from posts in the past I had the impression that the truck's entire suspension system was going into resonance under some condition - just the right combo of speed / bumps.



On a recent trip through Arkansas, I was cruising along at 65 mph with cruise control on, and encountered a section of highway with some truly bogus expansion joints. I was relaxed at the time, listening to an audio book, and had become accustomed to the droning "thump... thump... thump... " of the regular highway. When I hit the bad section, the "thump rate" changed and the truck started bouncing and within a second or two ramped into some SERIOUS gymnastics. I thought it was going to shake apart before I could slap the button to turn off the cruise, scared the out of me. Within moments of slowing down, no more than 5 mph or so, the handling returned to normal.



My whole truck was porpoising over the bumps, not just front end bounce, which suggests that the combination of front/rear spring rates and shock valving was causing the problem.

 

[CFiorentino]

Death Wobble

Adam,

The death wobble you are referring to, does it start out as a small bounce from left to right, like the tires are vibrating up and down, then it starts to get much worse to the point where you have to come almost to a complete stop. I have had this problem for years, and it seem to happen once my tires get below 50%. It has to be just the right bump to set the nightmare in motion. I've had it happen to me on the PA turnpike at 65 MPH and had to pull of the side of the highway to get it to stop.



Chris Fiorentino

97 2500 4x4 Still all stock 204k

 

[blmyachtsales]

Chris, that is an excellent description of the death wobble I have had. It has happened to me with old and new ballanced tires. The cure seemed to be a combination of tie rod ends, drag link, ball joints, ballaced wheels, steering box, alignment and shocks. If any two are off problems begin occur.