Death Wobble Gone

[DGStrate]

Caster Settings and DW

Hi all...



Thought I'd throw in my $. 02 worth...



I have the BFG 315s as many on here do...

I do NOT have a 2" level kit... I have experienced mild DW before.



I took the truck in for an alignment to a shop where I take all my alignment work and heard the same as many others on here... The guy who did my alignment has an 04 Dodge (gasser) but said that caster is CRITICAL on these trucks to make the steer correctly. On my truck, the right and left caster is very good in relation to each other... within about . 5 degrees side to side.



The factory specs call for caster to be set at 4. 7 (+ or -) . 75 degrees.

When maxed out, I can get my truck up to about +6. 25 degrees caster.

Currently, I am set up around 6 (+ a smidge) degrees.



I know... it is out of factory spec, BUT it does drive MUCH better than it did with the factory alignment. Steering is more precise and tighter feeling... AND... caster does not cause tire wear (like toe settings do). My toe is set within spec, but toe'd towards the inner specs, again, to counter the outward "push" on the 315s and softer sidewalls. I do run my front tires on the upper end of the pressure specs too, usually between 57-62 psi... helps keep 'em a little stiffer.



Why did the death wobble go away with MTRs? Probably due to the fact that they are much stiffer in the sidewall and are resisting road "pull" on the tire more than the BFG 315s would... Don't get me wrong, I think the MTRs area great tire, and TexBamBam, I am glad that they worked for you... I merely wanted to point out that with the correct suspension setup, I was able to run the BFG 315s and make my truck feel almost like I was still riding on the factory tires.



Good luck to all who are fighting this problem!!



BTW:

Dave and YoHoot: Good explanations on caster for those on here that are unfamiliar with it!! Thanks!!

 

[TexBamBam]

Can we adjust the caster ourselves... or does this need to be done by a alignment shop? If it's putting stress on the system I would like to get it fixed. But I have heard of folks that had DW on a brand new stock truck with 8 miles on it. What would cause that?

 

[DPelletier]

Can we adjust the caster ourselves... or does this need to be done by a alignment shop? If it's putting stress on the system I would like to get it fixed. But I have heard of folks that had DW on a brand new stock truck with 8 miles on it. What would cause that?

Probably not enough positive caster from the factory (i. e. caster set on the low side of the acceptable range or out of it altogether. )



DGStrate,

I thought I read somewhere where the Jeep TJ guys were running around 6 deg too. They have the same front suspension and steering setup and DW is common on those vehicles. They get lifted and larger tires get installed even more often that p/u's do.



TexBamBam,

I would guess that in your case, your caster has always been out. It worked for quite a while with the BFG's, until you got enough wear in the front end combined with the soft tires to manifest the DW. Your change to the stiffer MTR's put the DW into remission, but the underlying cause hasn't been addressed.



Just to clarify, I think the BFG AT KO's are good tires (I have a set on my TJ), and if everything is set properly you should be able to run them without DW (as DGStrate has done). Personally, I prefer a stiffer tire due to load induced sway issues for my application, but they are good tires.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[DGStrate]

Caster Adjustment

Can we adjust the caster ourselves... or does this need to be done by a alignment shop? If it's putting stress on the system I would like to get it fixed. But I have heard of folks that had DW on a brand new stock truck with 8 miles on it. What would cause that?

TexBamBam,

You are best to let an alignment shop set the caster... Once you move it, the rest of the alignment goes to he!! in a handbasket... As Dave mentions, often, the RAM alignments are not dead on from the factory. If they are 4. 7 degrees spec (+ or -) . 75, they could theoretically be as low as about 4 degrees on caster and still be "within spec"... This is much too low for a softer "D" rated tire, especially if someone is running it at lower pressure ranges.



Dave,

You are right about the Jeep TJs... I have an XJ model Wrangler myself and also am running BFGs on it... Currently it is stock height, and I am running a BFG 30x9. 50R15 which has a very stiff sidewall, so I have not encountered any problems up to this point. Once I lift and upsize tires, you can bet that I will be increasing caster on it as well!



As Dave mentions, I also think the BFG AT KOs are good tires... I run them with Counteract balancing beads and have had no troubles. If you need a stiffer tire for your application, by all means - run it! Better SAFE than sorry. For my usage, the BFG 315s are a good match.



Regards,

-Derek

 

[TexBamBam]

Can I adjust this myself or do I need to take it to an alignment shop? I just had it aligned with the BFG's to the factory spec and it did not help. I supost I need to tell them to set the caster to 6 degrees?

 

[DGStrate]

Can I adjust this myself or do I need to take it to an alignment shop? I just had it aligned with the BFG's to the factory spec and it did not help. I supost I need to tell them to set the caster to 6 degrees?

see my above post...



I would actually tell them to max out the caster and measure where it is at... If it much more than 6, you may want them to back it off some before they take it off the rack, but around 6-6. 25 should be fine. Remember, caster will NOT cause tire wear... Be sure they set the toe correctly!!



-Derek

 

[TexBamBam]

Thanks, I just have to find an alignment shop that will listen to me... and is able to align a big truck...

 

[SHyans]

A friend of mine who has gone out of his way to help me on this is also my tire guy. After all my *****ing, he calls my dealer to compare notes. Dealer tells tire guy that one of the ball joints Dodge installed when slapping the truck together was the wrong one (?!). Dealer tells tire guy that they put "better" ball joints in than factory so "all should be better now". Hummmm... ... I ask myself, is all better until I hit that 3,000 mile mark again (when DW started originally) and then all hell will break loose again cuz these ball joints are now toast?

I mention caster to tire guy, tire guy doesn't think there are caster adjustments. When tire guy asks dealer about caster adjustments, dealer concurs that there are no caster adjustments on my 2004 2500?

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE?

 

[TexBamBam]

I can see the caster adjustments on my 03... .

 

[DGStrate]

A friend of mine who has gone out of his way to help me on this is also my tire guy. After all my *****ing, he calls my dealer to compare notes. Dealer tells tire guy that one of the ball joints Dodge installed when slapping the truck together was the wrong one (?!). Dealer tells tire guy that they put "better" ball joints in than factory so "all should be better now". Hummmm... ... I ask myself, is all better until I hit that 3,000 mile mark again (when DW started originally) and then all hell will break loose again cuz these ball joints are now toast?

I mention caster to tire guy, tire guy doesn't think there are caster adjustments. When tire guy asks dealer about caster adjustments, dealer concurs that there are no caster adjustments on my 2004 2500?

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE?

Sounds to me like someone does not know what they are talking about... There are no CAMBER adjustments on our trucks, but there are adjustments for CASTER and TOE (obviously)... Your ball joint dilemma does not sound like fun... I have heard of many people with ball joint problems - I am fortunate (knock on wood) - 8000 miles and no problems yet...



Good luck!

 

[TexBamBam]

50,050 miles no problems with the ball joints... yet.

 

[DPelletier]

A friend of mine who has gone out of his way to help me on this is also my tire guy. After all my *****ing, he calls my dealer to compare notes. Dealer tells tire guy that one of the ball joints Dodge installed when slapping the truck together was the wrong one (?!). Dealer tells tire guy that they put "better" ball joints in than factory so "all should be better now". Hummmm... ... I ask myself, is all better until I hit that 3,000 mile mark again (when DW started originally) and then all hell will break loose again cuz these ball joints are now toast?

I mention caster to tire guy, tire guy doesn't think there are caster adjustments. When tire guy asks dealer about caster adjustments, dealer concurs that there are no caster adjustments on my 2004 2500?

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE?

I'll tell you what's going on: Neither your friend nor the dealer knows what they are talking about.



Dave

 

[amsoilman]

I have a friend who works in a Dodge Dealership. He has informed me that DC is aware of this "Death Wobble", and are currently investigating this problem. Dodge claims the tire pressures are very critical, like front tire pressure 50 psi (no load), 60 psi (loaded to GVW), rear tire pressures, 40 psi (with no load), 70 psi (loaded to GVW). Tire pressures are for standard OEM tires, on Diesel powered trucks. And all the steering componentry bolts and nuts need the proper torque.



Ensure the torques are set as follows:

Toe adjustment sleeve bolts... ... ... 40-50 ft-lbs.

Outer tie rod ball joint to knuckle nut... ... 90-90 ft-lbs.

Ball joint to pitman arm nut... ... 70-75 ft-lbs.

Drag link to tie rod connection... ... 60-65 ft-lbs.

Steering Damper to linkage connection... ... 60-65 ft-lbs.

Seering Damper to axle bracket... ... . 75-80 ft-lbs.

Track Bar Torque... ... 160 ft-lbs.



Also need to check for a chrome plated washer between the tie rod and knuckle.



Wayne

amsoilman