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Death Wobble in laymans terms

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I have the 2" leveling and have also had the DW on and off since the install. I have now installed the Superlift dual stabiliser and no more DW. I have noticed that the DW is different from truck to truck. I have installed many spacers and mine is the only one with the issue. My Caster is set at 4*.

Gary
 
Just got back from a 300 mile trip... . DW is back. Had about 500lbs in the bed, and a passenger. Back to the alignment shop I go...
 
I know this thread is a little dated, but I am having a problem with the axle on my truck. At 70 MPH and above I hit a a rough spot on the pavement and the front end starts shaking violently until I drop speed below 60 MPH. Trying to steer out of it doesn't help, only slowing down does it. Sounds like from what I am reading I am experiencing DW. The truck has 45,000 miles on it, mostly highway. I put 315's on it the day I bought it and haven't had any axle issues until the last 3000 miles or so. There are no other mods to the front end. It is an 03' 3500 SRW Quad S-Box. I am not opposed to having caster added to the axle, just confused as to why I haven't had this happen until recently? Just doesn't make sense that it would start doing this now. Last I checked, the caster hasn't changed, so why would it start doing this out of the blue? :confused:
 
Good DW writeup from a Jeep site:





If you're asking what "Death Wobble" or DW is all about, it is a situation where the front axle begins oscillating with such violence that control of the Jeep is difficult until slowed down, and the entire vehicle shakes to the point you feel it will come apart. Over the years I have heard much discussion about the causes of DW and have come to a conclusion - DW isn't caused by any one factor, but may happen if any of the following are present (not necessarily in this order, either):

Poor alignment. The first question I ask these days when someone has handling problems after a lift is whether they had the vehicle aligned. More than half the time, it wasn't. Don't proceed until that's taken care of.



The front tires will be toed-in following most lifts, especially on the LJ, MJ, TJ, XJ, and ZJ because of the steering arrangement. When you hit a bump on only one side of the axle the tire will begin to bob up and down. Since the Control Arms are no longer horizontal, they will pull that side of the axle farther back as it goes down - this will turn the wheels slightly to that side. Once the tires pull to that side, the 'scuff' of the vehicle traveling straight ahead will slow the tire and begin the same process once again.



Drop Brackets can also help reduce this, since they bring the control arms back to a more horizontal position. Sometimes this can be caused by excessive toe-in of the front wheels-think of it as the tires being cross-eyed and not knowing which tire is dominant



Loose or worn Trackbar mount. The trackbar prevents (or reduces) side-to-side motion from the four-link front suspension on the XJ, MJ, TJ and ZJ Jeeps. If the ball joint is worn or the trackbar mount is loose, it can allow lateral wobble as described above

Trackbar, Pt II. The trackbar mount at the axle end can loosen up or 'egg' the hole and cause a lateral wobble or wiggle.

Poor Alignment (Part II). Lifting the Jeep involves changing the caster of the axle. If the stock control arms are used, the pinion will start pointing down, away from the t-case output shaft. As it points down, it changes the caster of the axle and therefore throws off the self-centering engineered into the axle. Remedy this by using adjustable control arms.

These figures are according to '94 factory manual except where noted. (may vary for 2000+ low-pinion axles and pre-91 disconnect axles).

Camber (not adjustable) = 0 degrees (+1/2 to -3/4 acceptable)

Caster = Manual transmission +6. 5 degrees, auto transmission +8 degrees (5 to 9 acceptable)

Toe-in. Depending on the year of your Cherokee, toe settings will vary.

87-94 you want 0" inches, + or - 1/16

on 95-96 you want 0" +1/8 or - 3/32

on 97-98 it's 0" +1/4 or -3/32

on 99-2001 its 1/8" +3/32 or - 1/8

Unbalanced tires. Once again, as they start throwing the axle around, the only way to stop it is going to be by slowing down.

Steering Stabilizer. A tight steering stabilizer can mask problems with the steering, but if it's loose it may allow DW to occur in cases where it normally wouldn't have.

Ball joints. Worn ball joints are a danger anyway as they may fail and cause uncontrollable steering loss, but by allowing the wheel to move laterally and independently of the opposite wheel they can also contribute to DW.

This page used to have a table showing typical control arm lengths. This has been moved to the RE Drop Bracket page.



A fellow Jeeper hit the nail on the head with his comments about DW. Tom's been around 4x4s forever, and has an engineering background that makes him make sense. DW's are caused by a rather simple problem, but one that can be hard

to track down. Your suspension system (which includes the body) is

out of equilibrium. Energy is being temporarily stored somewhere and

then released, and the cycle repeated. Energy storage can be in many

different areas. It can be in the sidewalls of the tires flexing, or

the rubber in the bushings of the springs and control arms, or in the

springs, or even in the flex of the body. The energy being stored is

caused by something being loose in the system, such as ball joints,

tie rods, control arm bushings, leaf spring bushings, motor mounts,

etc. or something out of alignment.

What makes things tricky is that you can have all of these problems

and have no DW. It has to do with the rate at which the energy is

stored and released. If the storage and release rates are close to

the same, you are in for trouble. That is why changing tires many

times will kill DW. The new tires are stiffer or softer than the old

ones and as such store and release the energy at a different rate.

The purpose of a steering damper is to change the rate of storage and

release of the energy, just as are your shocks.



I say all of this to point out that you can have all of the equipment

working correctly and still have DW, but in most cases I have seen,

there is a defective component that you haven't found yet. My first

rule of thumb is to check all the rubber parts first. They fail the

quickest and store/release the most energy. Second is to look for

loose connections/connectors such as tie rod ends. Third is to get

out a tape measure and check that you have approx . 125" of toe in

(difference in the distances between the front edge of the front of

the tires and the rear edge of the tires. After that I check the

caster. Lack of caster leads to a unstable system.



If all else fails, you need to retune the system. Start with a new

stabilizer if it is old or go to poly CA bushings.



-Tom "Old Man" Houston





 
It seems to get worse as the tires become worn. With that many miles I would check the balljoints, tie rods, and tie rod ends. It sounds like parts are worn instead of caster being too low.
 
My death wobble came back also. I went today to my buddies alignment shop and check the caster again. +4 3/4 on the PS and + 4 1/4 on the DS. I remember reading that the best camber is between +2 and +4. I dropped the caster adjustment at +4 1/4 PS which was max, and although I did not adjust the DS at all, it dropped to +4. The DW is now gone again and the truck drives really good. This tells me that taking out some of the caster helped my truck. I have a 2" leveling kit with Ranchos and 315s.
 
Thank you for the suggestions. Based on the description Tom posted, that is exactly what my truck is doing. Now to sort out what is causing it.



CJ, I did check the ball joints when I replaced the shocks-no excess movement when I grabbed wheel from top and bottom and rocked up/down. The tie rods are freely moving on the joint, but are not rattling on the ball. The tie rod shaft coming from the steering box to the right knuckle is moving freely, but not excessively. The drag link moves in a similar fashion. The Stab Shock isn't leaking or bent, but I haven't pulled off one side to see if it is still damping. Not sure how to check the bushings in the track bar. I'm guessing lift frame until suspension is unloaded and tires just barely on ground and push on wheel? Haven't checked the control arm bushings either.



The tires on the front are on the wear bars. Definitely time for new skins on the front. The rears were just replaced 5000 miles ago. The alignment is unchanged from the day I picked it up from the dealer. Of course it could have been knocked out driving these rough Michigan roads! From what I have observed so far, the front components still seem to be in decent shape, aside from checking the bushings of course.



Next step I believe is to check the bushings, replace the tires and take it in for an alignment check/correction. Unless you suggest I should continue to look for mechanicals. Thank you for your suggestions. I'm glad to see that a few others have dealt with this before, although I wish the Company would spend a few extra bucks and put higher quality parts in the front ends of our vehicles!
 
I checked my ball-joints by trying to lift the tires and couldn't get any noticable movement. After reading a few posts on TDR, I removed the tire and wheel and used a long pipe to pry up on the brake rotor. I was amazed at the amount of movement from ball-joints with only 45,000 miles. I used a dial caliper to measure the amount of play and had approximately 0. 020 on one side and 0. 010 on the other. From what I have read on TDR, this is within Mopar's acceptable range, but my experience leads me to believe that the specs are way too large. Changing all four made a major improvement in the way my truck tracked, especially at highway speeds. I was able to reduce the slack in the steering wheel by almost half an inch. It was a night and day difference.
 
its the BFG, they are not up the task of rolling under the might C







had wobble w/ no wobble when using a proper E rated tire. Get the right tire for the job. No compromise!



You got a heavy duty truck with Tacoma tires. might as well go with some P rated tires. IT will give your truck s very plush ride.
 
LRivera said:
its the BFG, they are not up the task of rolling under the might C







had wobble w/ no wobble when using a proper E rated tire. Get the right tire for the job. No compromise!



You got a heavy duty truck with Tacoma tires. might as well go with some P rated tires. IT will give your truck s very plush ride.

Much like the Goodyear GSA POS's I am fighting right now, very oddball tire wear all of a sudden. Front end is tight and within specs, but yet all Goodyear and now Dodge ( as of this morning) is sell me new tires again !! :(
 
I just downloaded the Service manuel at work in PDF. Have read the the procedures on the alignment, replacing ball joints etc. Interesting to see the 4 1/2 degree caster on the chart. I haven't had much time to crawl under the truck and check the joints out-getting married FRiday.



I know the tires need to be replaced. The tread is on the wear bars and they have a crown to them-which I'm sure is much of the handling problem, but I am going to still have the alignment checked/adjusted once I replace the tires. I'm kinda stuck using the BFG's as I have already replaces the rears with the same. Until now, I have not had a lick of problems with the ride or handling problems. I will be doing a through inspection of all bushings, joints and the stabilizer also prior to the alignment. I will keep you boys updated on what I find and how the issues are resolved. Thank you for your suggestions! Hopefully, I won't have to spend a fortune and unlimited time repairing my baby! :-laf
 
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