death wobble is back already

[TCluff]

:{ after a few thousand miles, the death wobble returns, after new ball joints, tie rods and ends, and a steering stabilizer it is back to haunt me again w t f are these trucks just good lookin trailer queens that cant be used as a truck or what,,,, runs great, drives like a turd ... . this is the last ram truck i will own !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cwbyinjeep]

:{ after a few thousand miles, the death wobble returns, after new ball joints, tie rods and ends, and a steering stabilizer it is back to haunt me again w t f are these trucks just good lookin trailer queens that cant be used as a truck or what,,,, runs great, drives like a turd ... . this is the last ram truck i will own !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry, why are you taking a crap in here? You lifted the hell out of your truck and now whining about the result. I have a perfectly stock dually that can haul anything you can hook up to it and no wobble. I would say you have a sway bar or track bar issue because of YOUR lift. I too like to alter and modify my stuff, but dont go crying about the problems your choices caused. Guys lift Jeep Wranglers all the time only to get the "death wobble". It just means someone smarter should have installed the lift. Sometimes the problem doesnt show itself right away, but it is fixable and not the trucks fault in this case. I have seen where a few folks with leveling kits had the wobble and attributed the problem to the front stabilizer bar not being in the stock orientation/degree to horizon. Also heard of a few with bad trackbar pivots after a lift. Either way, its not likely the trucks fault.

 

[JCastilleja]

You lifted the hell out of your truck... I would say you have a sway bar or track bar issue because of YOUR lift.

I agree, anytime you deviate from the origional design... in this case by six inches with oversized tires... you run the risk of ending up with less than perfect conditions. I understand lots of guys with other brands lift thier trucks, but I bet many have similar problems with similar lifts. I leveled mine and run 285s. I have been fortunate to have minimal issues... truck pulls slightly to the right. Still, I know the truck tracked perfect stock and it was I who WILLINGLY modified my baby.



Too bad you feel that way about your "baby", but I'll bet that you will more likely than not have the same issues with brand "X", with similar lift/tires. Good Luck on your search for the Holy Grail... . maybe the Kore system would be a better choice?

 

[Forrest Nearing]

get a quality lift w/ proper geometry

 

[TCluff]

sorry boys but the death wobble was before the mods too, maybe you should ask some history before before you crap on other people but i guess that is the tdr attitude every where

 

[Forrest Nearing]

sorry, didn't know the history... maybe a little would have helped us help you...

 

[coobie]

sorry boys but the death wobble was before the mods too, maybe you should ask some history before before you crap on other people but i guess that is the tdr attitude every where

First off sorry to hear about your death wobble problem,with that said I don,t agree with your comments about people crapping on you here and the TDR attitudes. IMHO this is a very helpful site when you post the correct info to start with. coobie

 

[TCluff]

sorry, didn't know the history... maybe a little would have helped us help you...

i apologize for the comments, i have had a lot of bad luck with this truck since it was new, also daimler chrysler voided my warranty over a level lift and 315s when i lost a front axle seal at 23000 miles, then i tried to sell my extended warranty back, but it is only worth 106 dollars..... , 3rd new dodge and all had warranty issues, when they voided my warranty, i took it as a green light to bomb it good... ... :-{}

 

[SS]

Sorry about your truck problems. A leveling kit *could* have changed pinion angles and so forth that *could* have shortened the seal life - doesn't seem like voiding the entire warranty should have happened if that's the case - if the doorpanel falls off it had nothing to do with tires/lift.



I will offer three suggestions for the death wobble: reset caster angle (try search for suggested ranges), a different (usually higher) bushing stiffness in the front control arms, and a higher load range tire (if I remember, BFG is only D rated). Mine is gone completely with only change being from C rated to E rated tire - not sure if it's weight of tire, sidewall stiffness, or other but it definitely changed it.



Hope you get it to run how you want it.

 

[SilverSage]

:{ after a few thousand miles, the death wobble returns, after new ball joints, tie rods and ends, and a steering stabilizer it is back to haunt me again w t f are these trucks just good lookin trailer queens that cant be used as a truck or what,,,, runs great, drives like a turd ... . this is the last ram truck i will own !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My truck is not lifted but I had terrible Wobble problems, spent over a many hundreds only to find the answer was in shock on the drag link fixed the problem. Don’t get a cheap shock get a good one.

 

[cwbyinjeep]

My truck is not lifted but I had terrible Wobble problems, spent over a many hundreds only to find the answer was in shock on the drag link fixed the problem. Don’t get a cheap shock get a good one.

as in Steering Stabilizer?

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

daimler chrysler voided my warranty over a level lift and 315s :-{}

I am a firm believer that your DW was originally caused by the BFG 315's. I get calls weekly from guys with the spacers and 315's with DW. Change the tires and it goes away.

Now to your issues. You six inch lift probably isn't causing the DW. Again it is a Load Range D tire. The Drag link is a non issue on the 3Gen trucks. I have seen this over and over. I have to insist that you at least try a load range E tire. Goodyear makes a few, Toyo, Micky Thompson... BFG tires were great back in the days of old. Now tire technology has passed them up. The comments about Caster and Toe In that we have discussed over and over help too. As long as you have positive caster, 1/16th" toe in and E rated tires. Your DW will be gone!



Enjoy,

Greg Boardman

President DRC

 

[yycguy]

TCLuff,

What steering stabilizer shock do you have on your rig?

 

[brods]

I am a firm believer that your DW was originally caused by the BFG 315's. I get calls weekly from guys with the spacers and 315's with DW. Change the tires and it goes away.

Now to your issues. You six inch lift probably isn't causing the DW. Again it is a Load Range D tire. The Drag link is a non issue on the 3Gen trucks. I have seen this over and over. I have to insist that you at least try a load range E tire. Goodyear makes a few, Toyo, Micky Thompson... BFG tires were great back in the days of old. Now tire technology has passed them up. The comments about Caster and Toe In that we have discussed over and over help too. As long as you have positive caster, 1/16th" toe in and E rated tires. Your DW will be gone!



Enjoy,

Greg Boardman

President DRC

Interesting..... do you know how tire load range plays a factor? Stiffer sidewalls?



How did you come up with the toe number? Was it trial and error, or some calculated number?

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Interesting..... do you know how tire load range plays a factor? Stiffer sidewalls?



How did you come up with the toe number? Was it trial and error, or some calculated number?

Sidewalls:

We have tested almost every brand or sub brand of 37 and 35 inch tire. Most are Load Range D, some are Load Range E. From my experience, an E rated tire is more resistant to have DW. Put on a 315/70/17 BFG AT KO and it is only a matter of time before the DW rears its ugly head. Not to say that all trucks with a AT KO will wobble. Just stating that in our base of information, people calling to complain about a DW/Spacer issue, the AT KO was a huge contributing factor.

I believe that the sidewall on that tire was made thinner for GM. That is the OE tire on the H2 Hummer. Made to ride "Car Like" for the soccer moms and not suited for a HD pickup truck like ours. Sure the numbers are high for the load rating. But the load range D tire is no bueno.



Toe:

Toe had been determined in off road racing for years. A little more than static (0) is the best for cornering and driving straight. We have tested different amounts and 3/32 is the best but a hard number to obtain. That is why we suggest 1/16th over all... .



Greg

 

[Forrest Nearing]

great info Greg!

 

[EricBu12]

I heard when someone did a lift, they made longer controll arms and they say that helped alot. Is your 6" lift that way or did you use stock length arms with the kit?



The tire comments are interresting, I agree that a "softer" tire like a D would be "squishy" maybe having a DW effect... . There are E rate tires that are good off-road tires and being stiffer, might do well...



With those heavier tires and higher off the ground, do you have dual Steer stablizers? Maybe that would help... .

 

[DIESELMAN]

DM Agrees - If you really must run BFG's, max pressure, and rotate, rotate, rotate. I found that I needed to rotate every 3,000 miles or DW would occur. I have had DW on 2 of 3 trucks, one had true issue with the Mexican assembly plant QC, but both had BFG's (One leveled, one with 4" Superlift/springs and all), and the problem is cured, every time,by rotating and maximum tire pressure.



DM on the American Road!

 

[brods]

Sidewalls:

We have tested almost every brand or sub brand of 37 and 35 inch tire. Most are Load Range D, some are Load Range E. From my experience, an E rated tire is more resistant to have DW. Put on a 315/70/17 BFG AT KO and it is only a matter of time before the DW rears its ugly head. Not to say that all trucks with a AT KO will wobble. Just stating that in our base of information, people calling to complain about a DW/Spacer issue, the AT KO was a huge contributing factor.

I believe that the sidewall on that tire was made thinner for GM. That is the OE tire on the H2 Hummer. Made to ride "Car Like" for the soccer moms and not suited for a HD pickup truck like ours. Sure the numbers are high for the load rating. But the load range D tire is no bueno.



Toe:

Toe had been determined in off road racing for years. A little more than static (0) is the best for cornering and driving straight. We have tested different amounts and 3/32 is the best but a hard number to obtain. That is why we suggest 1/16th over all... .



Greg

In your opinion is it accurate to think of changing to a stiffer sidewall as removing some slop from the system or do you believe there are more complicated interactions going on? Ok, yes, I always try to fully understand things to the point of being overkill, lol. Thanks for your patients.



Food for thought: a BFG engineer told me a few years back that they build some conicity into the tires. This is a slight cone shape instead of a perfect cylinder. The purpose is to take up the slop in the steering components, he said, and one of the reasons why you always want to mount all the tires same side out (so they cancel each other). I don’t have ant idea how or if this would have any effect on DW, just throwing it out there.



Thanks for the toe tip, its hard to beat real world trial and error.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

In your opinion is it accurate to think of changing to a stiffer sidewall as removing some slop from the system or do you believe there are more complicated interactions going on? .

Changing to a stiffer sidewall will help with the deflection that causes the action described as DW. DW is not only a tire issue. I had a customer come in with a 2 inch spacer BFG tires and 30,000 on the clock. We installed a race system, aligned the truck, and had DW so bad... We could only get it better. Not total removal of DW. The tires were on the truck since new and were pretty bad. The customer took the truck to the dealer under our advice, and they replaced the tire rod ends, a hub, and his steering box was loose to about a quarter turn. These are all things that I found to be bad after the install. Now I wouldn't even expect a truck with 30K on it to have so many failed componants. After the replacement of worn parts, the truck was fine but still had a hint of DW. We sent out a set of Toyo 35/12. 50/17 Open Country MT's with a load range E and the truck is solid. Not a hint of DW. So to answer the question again. Tires will help with DW. It is also more complicated than just a tire change. Do we know what causes DW? Yes, a mountain of small issues combined into the right order to have a undesireable effect. Death Wobble.



Now back to the 6 inch lift... .

A lift like that should not cause DW. It has the proper drop down brackets, longer control arms, drop pitman arm, ad infinitum... ... ... A double steering stabilizer is in no way a cure for DW. It could possibly mask it for a little while until something becomes worn out a little bit and it will resume. Again, proper caster adjustments and toe in will help. Any worn parts must be replaced. Go to a quality front end shop, not a tire shop or a dealer, and have them check out your truck for failed parts. Ball joints, tie rod ends, steering link ends, steering box, trak bar, even a steering stabilizer. Any loose bolts or parts in the front end will cause issues too. Our front end cycles in a circular oscillation. Up and down, side to side, and in and out. Is it the best design? Probably not but were stuck with it. Can it be made to function properly? You Bet!!!! The diagnosis of the issues is the biggest burden of all. Once the proper part or parts are replaced, it will get better.

Greg