deathshake

[ragjoint]

Went over a set of rr tracks today at about 60 mph. . it felt like the front end was gonna fall off the truck! Haven't had any problems with this truck (96 2500 4x4) for 89,000 mls, had to slow down to 50 mph braking heavy before it would stop shaking. Help!

 

[TRodney]

Need to replace your tires!

I had the exact same thing happen on my 94' truck. I researched the posts on death wobble and determined that the most likely problem was my tires because I already had a new track-bar. After replacing my tires, the problem went away completely!



My front-end alignment guy said it is a problem he has only seen with 10 ply tires. The additional belts in these tires are prone to separating, which causes this problem.



Maybe you can swap the front and rear tires and see if the problem goes away. I wouldn't think that all your tires have separated.



Also, my old tires never showed any visible signs of any problem.



Good luck,

Tim

 

[TCook]

Need to replace tires. Just replaced mine and it feels like a new truck. My "wobble" wasn't that bad but it is completely eliminated now with the new tires (305/70/16).

 

[ragjoint]

tires

I have been running c rated tires for 38k 265/75/16 Bridgestone duellers, never had a shake, wobble, or shimmie. Waiting on Stockton wheel for four rims with 4-15/16 centers to fit over my hubs, going to Michelin 265/75/16 10 ply. Does anyone know if they make a trac bar for a ram that eliminates the tierod end and uses a bushing? Seen one for a jeep. Better yet, how bout a leaf spring conversion!

 

[work2muchplay2little]

I had this happen to me for the first time last week as well and have done some searches. Death wobble is the term most often used here, BTW. What my reading has revealed is that there are numerous possibilities for the problem and just as many solutions. What has come up more or less in order of frequency is bad trac bar, bad tires, insufficient caster, bad ball joints, bad control arms/bushings, bad sway bar bushings, bad steering linkage, bad steering stabilizer, and too great an angle between the drag link and tie rod. I haven't yet found my problem but will post it here if it seems noteworthy. Good luck!!

 

[pcorssmit]

Originally posted by work2muchplay2little

I had this happen to me for the first time last week as well and have done some searches. Death wobble is the term most often used here, BTW. What my reading has revealed is that there are numerous possibilities for the problem and just as many solutions. What has come up more or less in order of frequency is bad trac bar, bad tires, insufficient caster, bad ball joints, bad control arms/bushings, bad sway bar bushings, bad steering linkage, bad steering stabilizer, and too great an angle between the drag link and tie rod. I haven't yet found my problem but will post it here if it seems noteworthy. Good luck!!

You forgot bad engineering.



Pete

 

[NVR FNSH]

Easy there Pete We're not all bad.



Actually, I've spent considerable time in 3 different 2nd gen trucks - '96 2500 4wd CTD, '96 2500 4wd 5. 9V-8 & '00 2500 4wd CTD. Only the gasser has exhibited ANY signs of the death wobble. New tires helped, increased caster solved the problem. Granted the trac bar leaves something to be desired as far longevity goes but for the most part DC did a pretty good job. There is a lot more to go wrong with the 4 link/coil front end but I for one am willing to accept the trade offs for improved ride. Big tires & rough roads accelerate any wear problems and will cause problems for any front end.



Brian

 

[Ted Constantine]

I have never had my truck get to the point of death wobble but I have been in a jeep when it happened and thought I might die. Bad tires and many other options can only add to a larger problem. If you think about how our front ends are designed, in order to get death wobble one of the major pieces holding your axle to you truck has to be worn out. The control arms or the trac bar are the most likely options. If you have some one work the steering wheel back and forth just enough to move the tires (truck sitting still) and watch the track bar ends chances are you will see a great deal of movement in the frame end (drivers side) joint. The type of joint used is prone to breaking down and mine on my current truck was dead at 25k last week (warranty). Lukes links, I have heard is an option for rebuilding the trac bar ends or invest in a DT bar. Once you have checked out the trac bar and control arms and fixed any issues, have a full alignment done. Death wobble, as you could feel, beats the hell out of all the other front end components as well as you steering system. I hope this helps. Check that trac bar before you worry about the other parts. It is easy to check. One other thing is Larger/wider tires not only stress the front end causing problem but also have a tendency to mask problems that cause death wobble until they are bad enough to result in wobble.





Ted

 

[NVR FNSH]

Ted,

I have to disagree with statement about parts being worn out to cause death wobble. My '96 gasser had all the major front end components replaced (under warranty) w/o solving the problem. Increasing caster is what solved the problem. Granted, worn out parts can cause the problem and should be replaced but caster can be the cause.



Brian

 

[Ted Constantine]

Brian,

You are right the caster is a cause of wobble. The problem I have is how the axle would gain the movement necessary. The joints must have extra place to move like that outside of the normal plane.



All of the death wobble cases I have seen have been related to the trac bar but a full alignment is an important part of fixing any issue in the front end.



I don't think that the engineering behind these front ends is bad but I think we fall victim to DC using parts that can not handle the weight of our trucks. They are trying to cut corners and we are paying for it.



When I am off warranty and DC stopps replacing stuff I will replace everything with after market stuff that will last more than 20k.



Sorry about the double post.



Ted

 

[NVR FNSH]

Ted,

The caster shimmy/death wobble is not a result of worn/sloppy parts. It's the result of an unstable condition (dynamic) where the wheels are actually moving about the steering axis.



In my case new parts didn't solve the problem because the old parts were not worn out. I do agree with you about the trac bar being undersized for the application.



The trac bar was replaced on my '96 and to be honest I couldn't tell any difference between a 'bad' (dealer definition - I don't think they measured the movement) trac bar and a good one. In fact, the 'bad' trac bar was re-installed on the truck with all the other new parts and I still couldn't tell any difference. Not saying the trac bar can't be the cause of the death wobble but it's not the only cause. Actually, I think people are using death wobble to describe different problems that ultimately have different solutions.



Brian

 

[Ted Constantine]

I appoligize Brian. The condition that I call death wobble is the whole axle moving and shaking. It is self perpetuating, ie once it starts it takes a drastic change in speed to stop it. I don't think we are talking about exactly the same thing.



Ted

 

[pcorssmit]

Originally posted by NVR FNSH

Easy there Pete We're not all bad.

Never meant that. Matter of fact, I should be working on my thesis at the moment. Was mostly talking about the guy who designed the frontend on these trucks just after he transferred from Amtrak.



The steering linkage on these trucks is a joke. Multiple bends, and a design that varies toe with ride height/load. The only ones I've seen with decent steering linkage is the '99 model. When mine wears out, I plan to replace it with the '99 stuff or just get some DOM and make my own.



When I bought mine with 76k miles, it needed a track bar, stabilizer, and lower ball joints. The older Dodges, as well as the Chevy Dana 60s like the one in my Blazer, used king pins that last nearly forever. When they do wear, its usually just the $3 plastic cone that takes 5 minutes to replace. I also bought the trac bar repair kit (DT?). The death wobble went away, but it still never really felt solid. This was with a totally stock truck. After fixing it, I put in a 2 1/2" coil spacer and 255/85R16s on 16x8s. No noticable difference, but now its loosening up again. I've experienced death wobble in other trucks before, but it was always at lower speeds (25-30), and in modified trucks. Mine does it in the 60-70 range. The Jeep Cherokees also have similar problems (at least when lifted with bigger tires), and a similar front suspension design.



FWIW, I've heard that a second stabilizer, while it is a band-aid fix, helps out a good deal and plan to install one when I get a chance.



Pete

 

[Lsfarm]

Front end wobbles

I'm probably going to ge flamed on this but I have to say, that as far as engineering I think that Dodge did a pretty good job on the front end.



These Ram trucks are the first 4WD trucks that I have ever owned that didn't wear the front tires funny.



No cups, scallops, outside or inside abnormal wear.



My first Dodge Ram was a '96 extended cab, automatic. It had at 45,000 miles it's third set of front brake pads [now that's p*ss poor engineering!!!], and second set of brake rotors.



At this last brake service the dealer said that every track arm, bar, and joint was worn out. I was very surprised, because the tires had normal wear, I had no wander, wobble, rattles or complaints. I had a special warrantee, so they were replaced.



The tires at this mileage showed less than 1/3 of the original tread gone. [Factory issue tires]



With my later trucks, the brakes got better, the track arms got better, the power got better.



I have no complaints, I'm now on my sixth Diesel Dodge Ram.



Just my experiences, and $. 02 worth. Greg L

 

[CumminsPower98]

wobble

I was driving a '96 Ford F-350 4x4 once when the death wobble occurred. I was driving at about 45 MPH and it was violent. I thought something was really wrong but found nothing loose. One of the front tires was not wearing right so the conclusion I came to was that the tires caused it. I'm sure the tires were just bouncing back and forth real fast. This is the only time I have ever experienced this sort of thing.

 

[work2muchplay2little]

It's fixed!!

This past week I installed one of DT's trac bars. This is a very nice piece, constructed of chrome plated heavy tubing with anodized and threaded mounts. The end that attaches to the frame has a heim joint. After installing and centering the axle, I increased the caster to one notch less than maximum. First impressions are that the front end is significantly tighter, although the steering wheel needs to be recentered. Overall, I'm pleased and would recommend the DT trac bar.