DEF Mixture- Distalled / Deionized Water 10-17%

[Wayne M.]

Its a 2013, the models pretty clear in the Video, 2013-16 Same System That the latest (16)... I've NOT worked with the 2017-18 have different Modules...I wish I had more time to look up all the spec, Its Schieds Extravaganza Event and I'm heading Out.

I don’t think everyone could identify that truck as a ‘13. Not everyone knows the year to year 4 gen differences.
Can you identify the specific differences between a 1984, 85, ‘86 and ‘87 Lincoln Town Car?
The 13-16 seem to be the trucks that had the ammonia sensor update, and do not have RDQS. The DEF dilution will work in these.
My whole point in this is that with the 17 and up RDQS equipped trucks there would be an issue, unless someone comes up with a workaround.

 

[TCDiesel]

That's what...... the same lame excuse used for the 13-16 Even when I had the Ammonia sensor. As Soon as I get My hands on a deleted 17+ DEF tank I will let you know... and if That sensor is in 17+ trucks most owners will be deleting ASAP, because its going to give false Trigger codes under certain conditions ,OR They will be recalling them in the next 2 Years when Crashes happen for the de-rated power on N/A Hwy.. I doubt its even care what the % is..... only its present...What's next Quality fuel sensors LMBO.

And WHY would FCA or any vehicle Maker.... put a sensor in the DEF tank to Measure Concentration % ?

 

[Wayne M.]

TC, it’s not just FCA, the entire diesel world just about, are using quality sensors. They work.
And stop it with the deleting crap!
Not everyone is going with that risk.
What lame excuse are you talking about? Seems I’m the one that caught your pants down when you got the ammonia sensor confused with the reductant quality sensor.
The system gives plenty of warning before it derates, and this ain’t going anywhere, in fact SCR will be the prevailing technology. the equipment maker JCB has eliminated the DPF and is only using SCR in their lower hp machines.
Besides I’m not knocking your theory, in fact it’s a good idea, it’s just not gonna work on the newer ones.

 

[TCDiesel]

No, I'm just find its the Rambo keystroke kings That make claims limited to the Same Keystrokes....For all the 2017-19 Owners Your just guessing Wayne Until someone actually steps up and tries lower concentration levels, Wait a second I will ask KB he has a 2018 and I believe he's doing it also, He has access to unlimited Distilled water, and I gave him some Urea Last Fall. He used lower concentration on his 2013 for over 100K Miles code free and it spent its entire life OUTSIDE thru 5 MN winters 2013-14 Were brutally cold.

I dumped My Eco because of all the problems associated with that POS, Right Now My 2003 5.9 ....and My 2008 Duramax Deleted are the Best diesel Pickups I've ever owned ,My 2013 Is catching up fast Thou ...Its not doing it by keystrokes If My Cummins equal those Problems ( Of Eco) It will be gone also.

Wayne 1000s of Cummins Owner have left diesel do to all the risk of Ownership.

Wayne Please tell members and Guests at this forum WHY lower levels of Urea are harmful and in what /who's indefinite wisdom is 33% the magic Number?

 

[JR]

Todd good luck at Schieds. I'd love to make it out there one of these years.

 

[Wayne M.]

Wayne Please tell members and Guests at this forum WHY lower levels of Urea are harmful and in what /who's indefinite wisdom is 33% the magic Number?

I tried to research why the ISO had arrived at that mixture of water and urea, but the white paper document is held hostage at $68. I never said that lower levels are harmful. I did say that trucks with RDQS on their vehicle emissions label will not agree with diluted DEF, as you’re pushing. As Stan’s early post suggested, the low threshold is very tight at ~30%.

TC, could you take pictures and report to us how that event went?

 

[Learjet]

Just FYI...my scangaugeII shows DEF quality...usually 33 to 34% and DEF temp etc

Debating why its ~33% to me is like debating why the engine coolant is 50/50 ratio...because it the best ratio for performance. Plus you need a standard % to have the proper delivery system, pump size, injector...etc. among a large fleet of diesel users.

 

[JR]

Just FYI...my scangaugeII shows DEF quality...usually 33 to 34% and DEF temp etc

That PID is available for mine as well though I have not activated it.

 

[Wayne M.]

Just FYI...my scangaugeII shows DEF quality...usually 33 to 34% and DEF temp etc

Debating why its ~33% to me is like debating why the engine coolant is 50/50 ratio...because it the best ratio for performance. Plus you need a standard % to have the proper delivery system, pump size, injector...etc. among a large fleet of diesel users.

If you’ll go back to post #22, you’ll begin to understand this PID.
The whole point of this thread is that TC is letting everyone know that if you dilute (or even brew your own DEF) your DEF, you’ll hold back the guaranteed destruction of the system by running the standard strength DEF which is 34%. The injector will stay cleaner, etc.
The earlier SCR Rams do not have a quality sensor, and you can get away with TC’s idea, but if your under hood emission label has “RDQS” on its list of technology, you cannot dilute or else you’ll get a reductant quality fault.

 

[dieselshadow]

The whole point of this thread is that TC is letting everyone know that if you dilute (or even brew your own DEF) your DEF, you’ll hold back the guaranteed destruction of the system by running the standard strength DEF which is 34%.

Have we seen a bunch of destructed SCR injection systems just by normal use? I think we've seen *some*, but we've also have seen lots of things that have *broken*, but I fail to see a trend for the SCR injection system. I've only seen the random reported failures, basically a clogged injector.

Am I blind or ignorant? (Both could be plausible.... LOL)

 

[gsbrockman]

What would you deem a short life for those items?

Well......I wanted to see a few more posts within this thread before I reiterate something.

As some of you may remember, my previous truck was a 2014 RAM 3500 Tradesman Crew Cab DRW w/AS69RC and those “compromise” 3.73 gears.

Through 362k miles, I never had ANY DEF issues with the truck. A minimum of 50% of those miles were towing, oftentimes fairly heavy. Only 27.5 gallons of DEF was in 2.5 gallon jugs, the remainder was all bulk at the pump. The lifetime average on my truck was 13.8 mpg. At 2% DEF consumption, I probably went through 525 gallons of DEF. At 3% DEF consumption, it was probably closer to 787 gallons.

Additionally....I never took the truck in for the SCR recall. Hey.....it wasn’t broke, so I opted to “not fix it”.

Likewise on my 2018 RAM 4500....no issues through 154k miles.

 

[Wayne M.]

Hey GS, have you posted a picture of your emission label? I’m curious if you too have the quality sensor.

Most of my experience is with Mack Truck and Ford super duty SCR systems. Along with FCA, these all work on the same principle and have similar components. There are a lot of pump failures with Mack and many pump/ injector failures with Ford. I have personally heard a Mack engineer say that there is, for sure, a wicking factor for the DEF to work its way through the pump and into the connector, corroding everything in its path, but we haven’t seen too many of those.
The thing is, that those who have issues under warranty never knew what the outcome was or what went wrong, where the weak link is.
I have taken apart a Ford pump, and found signs of DEF/ corrosion inside the housing. Both Ford and Mack to have a special regeneration mode to de crystal the injector, and Ford has a function test to check the injector.
The bottom line IMHO, is that SCR is an evolving technology and I’m sure they will improve components as time goes on.
GS, I am happy to hear of your trouble free run in your rigs. Maybe I should retract my “guaranteed destruction” statement above.

 

[sag2]

Has anyone found a source for small quantity urea to make it? So far this is the only source that appears to be pure. Too expensive to make your own small quantity.

https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Urea-USP_p_165.html

 

[gsbrockman]

@Wayne M.
See post #47

 

[TCDiesel]

Has anyone found a source for small quantity urea to make it? So far this is the only source that appears to be pure. Too expensive to make your own small quantity.

https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Urea-USP_p_165.html

Just add Small Amounts of Distilled Water to the Tank when down to 2/3 That Way you can top it off with DEF......My guess that gage is LOM.

I have two tucks pulling tonight ,One at Schieds The Other in IA, PLUS CALLS for both Day's , I'm in Billings MT, Wife was going to Divorce Me If I did NOT get Her to Our Cabin In West Yellowstone MT.

Wayne I will post links to the pulls on Facebook or YOUTube.

 

[TCDiesel]

CK... It looks like a piston issue at the end. CK was driven By Craig ... and the Owner Is Chris K

 

[TCDiesel]

Not so good...

 

[TCDiesel]

Not so good 3rd...

 

[Wayne M.]

Thanks TC.

 

[TCDiesel]

The Cummins power plants kick Butt at Scheids in 2019 again. I'm hoping to Have Just Enough (Truck) new D-Max power plant Done for next season.... Its a big leap to compete with the Scheid's and Haisley's Power that has dominated for so many Years.