Deleted Non LE Oil???

[Newsa]

View attachment 113794

Yeah, John showed me that. I was looking on the marine oils page. I was on the wrong page of the site.

 

[pwr2tow]

I just noticed you haven't mentioned what oil you use. Whatever is on sale? Oil is oil, right?

Cheers, Ron

You also asked oil is oil, right.

OK, I buy into that. There was a lot of years, like my first 15 years driving from 1974, I put whatever SAE motor oil in my vehicles. and price was the factor. Never had a problem.

My BIL maintains three 7.3 Diesel Fords and likes Mystik xxW-50 here in TX.

Good info.

Cheers. Ron

OK, I buy into that. There was a lot of years, like my first 15 years driving from 1974, I put whatever SAE motor oil in my vehicles. and price was the factor. Never had a problem.

My BIL maintains three 7.3 Diesel Fords and likes Mystik xxW-50 here in TX.

Good info.

Cheers. Ron

Interesting you bring up the 70's, that's actually when there was a major difference between conventional and synthetic. With today's technology and advancements in oil the gap is so close between them you almost have to live in Antarctica to see any difference.
Back when my wife and I got married in the 70's she use to say oil is oil, well as time has progressed 40+ years she's right in today's technological advances world. LOL. As the Chippewa say, "life comes full circle". LOL

 

[Newsa]

You also asked oil is oil, right.


Interesting you bring up the 70's, that's actually when there was a major difference between conventional and synthetic. With today's technology and advancements in oil the gap is so close between them you almost have to live in Antarctica to see any difference.
Back when my wife and I got married in the 70's she use to say oil is oil, well as time has progressed 40+ years she's right in today's technological advances world. LOL. As the Chippewa say, "life comes full circle". LOL

One advantage to conventional oil is that the additive packages (Acid/base balance, anti-oxidant, detergents, viscosity, etc) stay dispersed/dissolved/distributed better (better than synthetics). But if using a class 4 or 5 synthetic, there are fewer additives, because the oil has viscosity, detergent, and high temp/anti-oxidant properties built into it's oil molecules (vs relying on extra additives). I think filtration is more important than type or brand of oil. That's why I run 2 oil filters. One full flow (OEM/Fleetguard/Donaldson/Amsoil) and an additional amsoil bypass filter.

The additional additives in the conventional oil have zero lubricating properties because they are additives, not lubricant. I prefer oils that have a higher percentage by volume of lubricant vs. those with a higher percentage volume of additive.

 

[Wiredawg]

You also asked oil is oil, right.


Interesting you bring up the 70's, that's actually when there was a major difference between conventional and synthetic. With today's technology and advancements in oil the gap is so close between them you almost have to live in Antarctica to see any difference.
Back when my wife and I got married in the 70's she use to say oil is oil, well as time has progressed 40+ years she's right in today's technological advances world. LOL. As the Chippewa say, "life comes full circle". LOL

LoL: my oil is oil comment was largely any dino motor oil meeting SAE specs was good for me and it worked.

Somewhere in late 80s I had multi vehicles and started buying Quaker State by the case and got name brand oriented.

In 2000, when I bought my first Ram Diesel, I decided to use Shell T4 Rotella 15W40 since it was readily available at truck stops and auto parts stores. What sold me on using synthetic in my 2002 Ram 3500 was an article I read that Chevrolet used synthetic in Corvette to keep it from overheating. The group I hung out with in DC area one was Amsoil dealer, so I ran 15W40 basic in it, and subsequently when I owned a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Gen at the same time, I purchased a barrel of it 33 gallons I think. Now. I've been running Mobile 1 5W40 in my 5500, but on the turn deciding to run Amsoil again.

Something that ring true for most, you tend to use what has worked for you and change is slow or not at all.

So in these oil discussions, I make fun, go along, share my experiences, and usually put info in my back pocket, and press on.

Thanks, And

Cheers, Ron

 

[pwr2tow]

One advantage to conventional oil is that the additive packages (Acid/base balance, anti-oxidant, detergents, viscosity, etc) stay dispersed/dissolved/distributed better (better than synthetics). But if using a class 4 or 5 synthetic, there are fewer additives, because the oil has viscosity, detergent, and high temp/anti-oxidant properties built into it's oil molecules (vs relying on extra additives). I think filtration is more important than type or brand of oil. That's why I run 2 oil filters. One full flow (OEM/Fleetguard/Donaldson/Amsoil) and an additional amsoil bypass filter.

The additional additives in the conventional oil have zero lubricating properties because they are additives, not lubricant. I prefer oils that have a higher percentage by volume of lubricant vs. those with a higher percentage volume of additive.

I'll stay stock thank you. The only problems I have ever had with my vehicles is the modified parts. I do agree conventional and synthetic oils are so close the next step is filtering but a quality oil filter is really all any vehicle needs. Donaldson, Baldwin, Fleetguard are my go to filters.

Actually the conventional oil additive package does have lubrication properties to it, called anti-friction additives.

 

[pwr2tow]

LoL: my oil is oil comment was largely any dino motor oil meeting SAE specs was good for me and it worked.

Somewhere in late 80s I had multi vehicles and started buying Quaker State by the case and got name brand oriented.

In 2000, when I bought my first Ram Diesel, I decided to use Shell T4 Rotella 15W40 since it was readily available at truck stops and auto parts stores. What sold me on using synthetic in my 2002 Ram 3500 was an article I read that Chevrolet used synthetic in Corvette to keep it from overheating. The group I hung out with in DC area one was Amsoil dealer, so I ran 15W40 basic in it, and subsequently when I owned a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Gen at the same time, I purchased a barrel of it 33 gallons I think. Now. I've been running Mobile 1 5W40 in my 5500, but on the turn deciding to run Amsoil again.

Something that ring true for most, you tend to use what has worked for you and change is slow or not at all.

So in these oil discussions, I make fun, go along, share my experiences, and usually put info in my back pocket, and press on.

Thanks, And

Cheers, Ron

I know right, it sure does make one feel good about useing a PERCEIVED (assumed) superior product. I have a hard time keeping conventional oil in my air cooled Harley Davidson V-Twin Twin Cam 103 but it's hard to argue with 200,000 mile plus on bikes without tear down.

 

[Newsa]

I'll stay stock thank you. The only problems I have ever had with my vehicles is the modified parts. I do agree conventional and synthetic oils are so close the next step is filtering but a quality oil filter is really all any vehicle needs. Donaldson, Baldwin, Fleetguard are my go to filters.

Actually the conventional oil additive package does have lubrication properties to it, called anti-friction additives.

True, but wear additives like zddp only provide wear protection when they decompose. Decomposition of some wear additives provides engine components a film protection under heat/pressure. Non-brokendown zddp provides minimal to no antiwear properties.

Since additives and lubricant are competing for space on the same metal surface, I would prefer oil containing 5-10% additives rather than 15-25% additives. So I spend more money on oil and an extra filter. I respect your decision to stay stock (one use filter) and use high quality conventional oil.

This is the second vehicle I've installed an amsoil bypass filter on. Never had a problem with properly-installed after market hardware.

 

[pwr2tow]

True, but wear additives like zddp only provide wear protection when they decompose. Decomposition of some wear additives provides engine components a film protection under heat/pressure. Non-brokendown zddp provides minimal to no antiwear properties.

Since additives and lubricant are competing for space on the same metal surface, I would prefer oil containing 5-10% additives rather than 15-25% additives. So I spend more money on oil and an extra filter. I respect your decision to stay stock (one use filter) and use high quality conventional oil.

This is the second vehicle I've installed an amsoil bypass filter on. Never had a problem with properly-installed after market hardware.

ZDDP is an anti-wear additive, not to be confused with anti-friction additives like moly ect. But yes additives wear out and so does synthetic natural anti-friction properties. If not we would never need to change the oil just filters.

That reminds of an oil seminar I attended for Cenex back in the middle 80's. The representative commented that one would never have to change the oil, just the filter every OEM schedule and filter capacity plus makeup oil would add back enough additives to protect the engine. Imagine that and with junk oil of the 80's compared to today's oils. Could it be a collusion between oil companies, OEM, and special interests that this isn't standard procedure. Not really a question just typing out loud.

 

[Newsa]

ZDDP is an anti-wear additive, not to be confused with anti-friction additives like moly ect. But yes additives wear out and so does synthetic natural anti-friction properties. If not we would never need to change the oil just filters.

That reminds of an oil seminar I attended for Cenex back in the middle 80's. The representative commented that one would never have to change the oil, just the filter every OEM schedule and filter capacity plus makeup oil would add back enough additives to protect the engine. Imagine that and with junk oil of the 80's compared to today's oils. Could it be a collusion between oil companies, OEM, and special interests that this isn't standard procedure. Not really a question just typing out loud.

I doubt you will find a significant amount of Moly disulfide in a CJ4 or CK4 oil.

The sulfur content is not recommended for engines and after-treatment systems that use ULSD

 

[SnoKing]

Back the late 50's and early 60's there were two oil issues that pledged certain engines.
One was the Mid/Late 50's Y block Ford V8's. Fail to regularly change the oil and the passage to the rocker arm shaft would plug up and starve the shaft of lube. Texaco Havoline was a winner in preventing this as it was a high detergent oil. If you are old enough you may have seen bypass oil tubes routed externally to the overhead.

The other issue was collapsed hydraulic lifters across several manufactures. We would bet a free oil change if a secret thing we had on the shelf would not free the lifter for 1.50 bucks or whatever it cost back then. We never lost.

And the secret:
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Put a small 4 oz can of this in the crack case and have them drive 10 miles out of town and back. AND no more tap tap tap of the collapsed lifter. They then paid for the can of secret stuff and a fresh oil change and promised to do more regular oil changes.

I often kid that I was weaned on Havoline Motor Oil. My uncle stated the Texaco distributorship in 1933. My father work for him for many years before buying out my uncle with the business book keeper. I worked as a kid in the distributorship and in the local service stations, and in 1976-1979 went back and drove the semi tanker.

We also sold a lot of 50 weight aircraft engine oil to Harley Davidson owners, as they had a bad oil foaming issue that the aircraft engine oil handled very well.

 

[TFucili]

If there was any oil with a more distinct smell than Rotella it was Texaco Havoline. That stuff reeked.

 

[SnoKing]

Yep!! Reeked for a week!

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[SnoKing]

I would add that we have come a lone way regarding both motors and lubes.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Al Amatuzio, the Father of Synthetics.

 

[TFucili]

Al Amatuzio, the Father of Synthetics.

View attachment 113824

I sold a lot of Amsoil in the powersports business, and it is still in my wife's car, but Ol' Al would have been very disappointed with how his Signature Series AZF 0W40 sounded in my 6.4 Hemi. It sounded like a thrashing machine. By far the noisiest oil I have run. It is quiet as a church mouse on 5W40 Redline right now.
#ad

 

[JR]

I sold a lot of Amsoil in the powersports business, and it is still in my wife's car, but Ol' Al would have been very disappointed with how his Signature Series AZF 0W40 sounded in my 6.4 Hemi. It sounded like a thrashing machine. By far the noisiest oil I have run. It is quiet as a church mouse on 5W40 Redline right now.
#ad

Not that it matters because you have found something you are happy with, but did you ever try Schaeffer's?

 

[TFucili]

Not that it matters because you have found something you are happy with, but did you ever try Schaeffer's?

I have not, but I am familiar with the brand, for sure, and I know it is top shelf. Nobody sells it out here, and there are no bargains on Amazon, etc. This Hemi is the first engine I have ever owned that was so darn fussy with engine oil, and I am not alone. I'll be glad to get back to a Cummins. Hopefully the roller lifters in the new 6.7 are not as problematic as in the Hemis.

 

[AH64ID]

Come on now, don't start this. Any CK4 will run 15,000 miles or multiple years.

I agree on the 15,000 miles, but I'd have to do a bunch of UOA's to run a dino oil for multiple years, but that's just me. The OCI is still 6 months, 500 hours, or 15K miles.

If anyone has a conventional oil UOA with 2 years and 15K miles I'd love to see it.

Interesting you bring up the 70's, that's actually when there was a major difference between conventional and synthetic. With today's technology and advancements in oil the gap is so close between them you almost have to live in Antarctica to see any difference.

Conventional oil sure has come a long ways. Look at what factory OCI's are now vs 20 years ago, it's impressive. My 4.0 Jeep is only 15 years old, but the motor is much older and has the original OCI 3 months or 3,000 miles... well regardless of what oil is in it, it won't get changed that often with today's oils.

I don't think it takes extremes like Antarctica to see the benefits of synthetic thou. For the '13-14 winter I had Delo 400 15w-40 in my truck, and I was HAPPY to have it out for the next winter. My 05 had a aftermarket oil pressure gauge in the cam journal. The Delo was noticeably slower to build pressure and the motor took a lot longer to quiet down on cold starts than Amsoil did. The Delo at 15° sounded worse, and took longer to build pressure, than the Amsoil at -25°. I even put some Delo and Amsoil in the freezer overnight and the difference was impressive.

On the other end of the temperature spectrum the Amsoil would maintain pressure better when hot than Delo, buy 5ish psi. Not that Delo would dip below the Cummins min pressures, but 5 psi is ~10% lower when hot and pulling a grade. Hot being oil in the 220° range.

Now, none of that means the Delo wasn't protecting the engine as intended I just didn't like it compared to the Amsoil from a sound/pressure standpoint.

 

[kthaxton]

I don't think it takes extremes like Antarctica to see the benefits of synthetic thou. For the '13-14 winter I had Delo 400 15w-40 in my truck, and I was HAPPY to have it out for the next winter. My 05 had a aftermarket oil pressure gauge in the cam journal. The Delo was noticeably slower to build pressure and the motor took a lot longer to quiet down on cold starts than Amsoil did. The Delo at 15° sounded worse, and took longer to build pressure, than the Amsoil at -25°. I even put some Delo and Amsoil in the freezer overnight and the difference was impressive.

Additionally, synthetics are slipperier. Are you likely to notice in the seat of the pants? Probably not, but knowing it lubricates better gives me a warm fuzzy.

 

[pwr2tow]

Like I said, don't need no expensive boutique oil to get winter protection. Maybe Antarctica I would run a boutique synthetic, and I have more fun things to spend my money on to make me feel warm and fuzzy.

After rebate of $20.00 three gallons cost $24.97