Delvac 1 oil analysis

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I recently changed to Delvac 1 from Amsoil and got my first results back. In the wear metals category it is the best analysis I have ever had. In terms of nitration and oxidation, the Amsoil was markedly better. Anyway . . .



*Miles on oil 11002

*Miles on Ram 70234

*2 Stratapore filters (Stock filtration)

*1 quart makeup (poured oil from old filter to new and added a little)



(Previous best results are in parenthesis, and prorated to mileage)

Iron 32 (36)

Chromium 0 (1, usually read 2-4)

Lead 5 (10)

Tin 1 (always 1)

Aluminum 6 (10)

Silicon 6 (7)



Oxidation 22. 2% (Amsoil was usually 3-5% so it outperformed Delvac considerably here)

NOX 15. 7% (Amsoil usually 8-11%)

TBN 12. 1 (dead even with Amsoil)

vis @ 100*C 13. 7 (Amsoil typical 13. 1-13. 5 for 15W40)



Not enough soot or water to register.



I ran this oil from March 'til now so it did not see a lot of very cold weather but quite a bit of heat (up to 109F).



I am pleased with these results except for the oxidation part. Lead and Aluminum counts took a big drop. If the numbers continue to be this good and oxidation does not climb considerably I'm sticking with Delvac.



I ran about 50000 miles on Amsoil, 20k of that with 5W30.



With all this oil tracking it might take me 100,000 miles to decide on what oil to stick with



Vaughn

 

[HC]

Please post your next results, too. Sounds like we're on a similar journey; I've used Delvac, then Amsoil 5W-30, now Amsoil 15W-40. Can't do one-on-one comparisons, because some of that was with stock filtration (including the Delvac), now using dual remote w/bypass.



My data (so far) suggests no big difference between wear rates of A 5W-30 vs A 15W-40. I don't totally trust the data; just a plus/minus accuracy of 10% could mean no there is no "true" difference between one sample at 30 ppm and another at 36 ppm. Also, neither set of samples included any hard towing, so maybe I didn't "challenge" the oil enough for the heavier stuff to really shine. That said, the 5W-30 samples looked better than my 15W-40 numbers for Fe, but not quite as good for Aluminum.

For reference, got Fe = 11 /5k on an earlier 5W-30 sample, Fe= 17 / 5k on my most recent 15W-40 sample. So is wear rate of the 15W-40 really 50% higher than the 5W-30? I doubt it.

 

[1tuffram]

Guys, which Amsoil do you like / prefer for overall engine protection, the Series 3000 5W-30 or the 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel and Marine oil? On my '95 I ran the 15W-40 for 9000 miles and the oil analysis came back good, so my skeptism of Amsoil and running synthetics for longer than the "traditional" 3000 mile drain intervals was put at ease. I decided to "upgrade" to the series 3000. I have run the same oil drain for around 30,000 with only full-flow filter (no by-pass) and the oil anylsis keep coming back ok. Even though the oil analysis keep coming back good I feel a need to change the oil. One thing I don't care for about the 5W-30 is the increased amount of blow-by from the breather tube. So now I'm contemplating switching back to 15W-40. I'm thinking if I go back to the less expensive Amsoil 15W-40 over the Series 3000, I will just change the oil once a year. Heck I only put about 10,000 miles a year on this truck so even that would be "excessive" change intervals. Would appreciate views from those who have used both oils.



As a side note I'm very interested in how the Delvac holds up. I may be ditching all Amsoil products, pending the results of a problem I've been tring to resolve with Amsoil for the last 2 mos. For my 2002 truck I wanted to install the dual remote bypass. I ordered CPFF battery mount, hoses and billet adapter, then like an idiot I ordered the SEPARATE components from Amsoil needed to complete the set-up and save a little extra $$ instead of ordering the whole dual remote kit from Amsoil. I'll leave it at there is a difference of opinions on what a proper resolution is for customer satisfaction. I'll post all the details when the final verdict is in.

 

[Riflesmith]

Vaughn,

Your analysis looks good. I believe it is difficult to make a valid comparison between oils where wear metals are concerned. This is especially true when running extended drains.



I ran Amsoil 5W-30 HDD to 30,000 miles a year ago. At oil change time, I had an Iron concentration of 53 ppm. After 7,500 miles on a new batch of 5W-30, 21 ppm iron. At 15,000 miles, 26 ppm iron. This represents a very non-linear change in the iron concentration which I believe results from residual oil that cannot be removed from the crankcase at oil change time. I'll bet at your next analysis your iron levels will also change mildly.



Regarding oxidation and nitration levels, they look fine to me. I would keep an eye on viscosity as an indication of breakdown. As oxidation levels increase, so should viscosity. Your Delvac is well within the range for 40W. The TBN number looks high to me. I have seen analysis of Delvac posted out of the bottle and it was 11. Perhaps Mobil has altered their formulation recently.



Mobil Delvac 1 is an excellent product with the perfect viscosity range for our engines and is an excellent choice for extended drains. Good luck with it.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Riflesmith, I think you are right on about metal counts, they are not always linear and I know this isn't an exact science and you cannot put a lot of weight on small changes in the numbers. When there is a trend though or there is a considerable change in the numbers it is telling you something. There probably isn't enough of a change in my numbers to suggest the Delvac is outperforming the Amsoil, but since it gave me the best numbers that is what I'm leaning toward (not saying it's the best for everyone). Like I said there are a lot of variables in this "science. "



1tuffram, I ran the 5W30 as well and did not like it. More blowby, had to add more oil, plus my wear metal counts were twice as high as I was seeing with the 15W40. After one 20K mile change of 5W30 I didn't run it again.



Vaughn

 

[Cooker]

Vaughn,



Didn't you run Delvac some time back? How does this round of Delvac compare to the Delvac you ran in the past? Same numbers, or close enough to be the same? I'm just wondering if they changed formulation.

 

[HC]

1tuffram,

My oil analysis numbers suggest the 5W-30 was slightly better protection, exactly the opposite result of what Vaughn is seeing. I've got to conclude we shouldn't put too much emphasis on the exact numbers, especially given that we're talking about trying to split hairs on parts per million.

In spite of the numbers I saw, I'm very happy with my decision to switch to 15W-40 for several reasons:

1) Others are seeing better results with 15W-40; maybe they have more data than me; remember, I've only gotten one sample since switching, so my one data point could be a "fluke".

2) Reduced blow by and consumption

3) Cost is much lower, so I feel less temptation to go with extremely long drain intervals. If I get uneasy, I just change it and quit worrying so much.

4) Viscosity meets Cummins recommendations



My opinion: With your 10,000 miles per year, I would be tempted to go with shorter intervals, such as 5k or maybe even less depending on what analysis told me. But if you've already been going 10k and are getting good analysis results, then change the filter every 5k and the oil every 10k. Your mileage is so low, I really don't see you as someone who would benefit greatly from bypass filtration unless you plan on trying to keep this truck for 50 more years. Me personally, I would not feel comfortable going 30k without bypass filtration, and I think someone with a lot of "short trip" mileage should be wary of extended drains even with a bypass filter. Us high mileage guys don't have to worry about moisture in the oil unless we get a gasket leak!

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Cooker, I ran Delvac 1 in my very early '98 24-valve (build Dec '97). I only ran it about 5500-6000 miles but had iron count of only 11. I only drove the truck 11,000 miles before I traded it on this one. I think they have changed the formulation because some of the specs on the sheets I have from 1999 differ from the 2000 printout I have (ie, the Viscosity Index dropped a few numbers).



IMO I think you can safely run 20,000 miles per oil change if he samples every 10K, especially if you run a lot of miles in a year. That is what I've been doing since the 10K mark on my truck. Every single sample has come back showing the oil has degraded very little and wear metals are very low after 20,000 miles. But I would only go with what you are comfortable with. I'd suggest starting with 10k then go to 20 if you are comfortable with it. I was a little nervous running 20K at first but now I don't worry about it at all.



Vaughn

 

[DocStressor]

Vaughn - I wouldn't worry about the oxidation levels you are seeing with Delvac. They may stabilize during extended drains. You can safely run the oil up to 100% of allowable oxidation/nitration if you really want to go that long. Most of the early oxidation you see comes from the small amount of conventional base stock that is used as a carrier for the additive package even with Group IV/V oils like Delvac 1. This stuff has unsaturated bonds that can oxidize to ketones, esters, and acids. The oxidation products are polar and tend to cluster together in the non-polar PAO solvent. But the detergent/dispersant package keeps them neutral and in solution. According to an SAE paper, Delvac 1 doesn't have oxidation problems out to 100,000 miles in OTR rigs.

 

[1tuffram]

Originally posted by HC

1tuffram,

My oil analysis numbers suggest the 5W-30 was slightly better protection, exactly the opposite result of what Vaughn is seeing. I've got to conclude we shouldn't put too much emphasis on the exact numbers, especially given that we're talking about trying to split hairs on parts per million.

In spite of the numbers I saw, I'm very happy with my decision to switch to 15W-40 for several reasons:

1) Others are seeing better results with 15W-40; maybe they have more data than me; remember, I've only gotten one sample since switching, so my one data point could be a "fluke".

2) Reduced blow by and consumption

3) Cost is much lower, so I feel less temptation to go with extremely long drain intervals. If I get uneasy, I just change it and quit worrying so much.

4) Viscosity meets Cummins recommendations



My opinion: With your 10,000 miles per year, I would be tempted to go with shorter intervals, such as 5k or maybe even less depending on what analysis told me. But if you've already been going 10k and are getting good analysis results, then change the filter every 5k and the oil every 10k. Your mileage is so low, I really don't see you as someone who would benefit greatly from bypass filtration unless you plan on trying to keep this truck for 50 more years. Me personally, I would not feel comfortable going 30k without bypass filtration, and I think someone with a lot of "short trip" mileage should be wary of extended drains even with a bypass filter. Us high mileage guys don't have to worry about moisture in the oil unless we get a gasket leak!

Thanks for you input. A lot of what you said is my thoughts also. I never intended to run this 5W-30 for this long without a by-pass system. since I run such low mileage (read as lots or short trip driving) I change the Amsoil full-flow filter and send in an oil analysis sample every 6 mos. After a few analysis results on the Series 3000 I was happy with it and decided to stay with it and do the extended drain thing and purchase a bypass system. Well as all good intentions go I never had the $$$ early in the game to purchase the bypass unit. After awhile I decided what the heck, if this oil is so good lets see how long it will hold-up with only full flow filtration. This little "experiment" has lasted 3yrs / 30,000 miles. The last analysis came back good, but this "experiment" has lasted long enough for me to see Amsoil will hold up. Regardless of what oil analysis numbers are showing I'd feel more comfortable with draining the oil and going to once a year or 10,000 mile drains since my experience has shown the oil can easily last 3 times that. I'm pretty impressed with the Amsoil's ability since about 15,000 of those miles have been short trip driving over the past 2 years (including 2 winters). A round trip to work for me is a mere 3 miles. I'm due for my usual 6mos filter change and oil analysis, but instead I'm thinking of draining the Series 3000 and switching back to the 15W-40. I'll continue to change the full flow filter every 6mos and problably stick with the oil analysis every 6 mos ( It's cheap insurance considering my short trip driving) and drain it at 10K miles or yearly. You are right I doubt I would benefit from a by-pass unit. Too bad I did not realize that before I FINALLY broke down and purchased it along with CPFF's stuff.

 

[amsoilman]

I have been running Amsoil synthetic engine oil and by-pass oil filtration systems in my 94 Dodge/Cummins since August 1994. The first oil I installed was the AME 15W-40. This was done at 8,400 miles. The AME 15W-40 was left in the engine until November 1999 with a total of 105,000 miles. Every oil analysis taken at 10,000 mile intervals showed the oil was acceptable for continued use. The wear metal Fe (Iron) did increase over that period of time to a high of 108 ppm. This was the highest wear metal on any of the reports, and was reported with 75,000 miles and nearly 3 years on the oil. I changed the by-pass element at that time and the next analysis taken at 85,100 miles/3. 5 years on the oil the Fe (Iron) came down to 77 ppm. Once again the oil was still reported as acceptable for continued use.

I elected to change the oil and also change the by-pass system from the (BMK-15) Duel-remote due to the fact I wanted to install the (BMK-11) single remote as well as go to the HDD 5W-30 motor oil. This was done with 105,000 on the truck. I did this as I sell these Amsoil products and wanted to see and experience them.

The oil (HDD) 5W-30 now has 41,000 miles and 2 years 9 Months on it. Truck has a total of 146,000 plus miles. The highest wear metal Fe (Iron) was 69 ppm and the oil once again was reported acceptable for continued use. I might add that all the oil analysis reports indicated the Viscosity was well within the limits.



I just sent an oil analysis in for testing this morning, so when I get the results back I will report them to you. Now some may not believe this can be done, and some may think I am doing harm to my engine, but I sincerely believe all is well inside my engine, as I have removed the valve covers for the purpose of adjusting the valves, and the interior of the valve covers are extremely clean. Truck still runs very nice and fuel mileage is still up.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Dave MacArthur]

Wayne,



Could you tell us how much oil you've had to add over the 146K miles? Also, how about a breakdown of any differences you've noticed between the 15w-40 and the 5w-30 (including any difference in how much needs to be added). The more I read on the site, the more it seems to me that we should be sticking with the recommended 15w-40 (unless you're living in Alaska ).



Vaughn,



How much is the Delvac?



I have about 72K on my truck. I've used Valvoline PB since new. Is there any reason not to switch to a synthetic at this point? Should I go to Valoline PB 2000 (semi) as an intermediate?



Thanks for any info.



Dave.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Wayne, I'm planning to add at least a single remote bypass, possibly on my next oil change (at either the 80k or 100k interval).



Dave, I bought my Devlac at a local distributor, I believe it was $21 per gallon so a little more expensive than I was getting the Amsoil 15W40 for.



Vaughn

 

[amsoilman]

Dave,

The first 100,000 miles I kept a good record, but since then I just add oil whenever it needs it and never record it. Anyway, the first 100,000 miles I added a total of 12 Qts. of oil. Each oil analysis (10) during the 100,000 miles required removing 4 oz. of oil.



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[HC]

Vaughn

Just FYI, I wish I had gone with the single remote bypass instead of the dual. The dual is nice when you're changing filters, but I would trade the extra convenience to see full factory pressure again, and to have the confidence that "no moving parts" gives one. JMO, I know others feel differently.

 

[amsoilman]

Vaughn,

Here is a picture of an Amsoil "Single Remote" by-pass mounted on passenger side battery.



Wayne

amsoilman