Did Man really land to the Moon?????

[Steve St.Laurent]

I've looked all over for that show and I can't find it. Here is a site though that debunks all of the hoax theories out there - http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html . Many of the same arguments given on that show are on there. Here's an article on the experiment that's still in place on the moon and still functioning today that I spoke about above - http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=605 .

 

[klenger]

michigandon: Thanks for the link to snopes on the story. I kind of assumed that it was not true, but it's funny in any case. OK, so we can't use Mr Gorsky as proof that we landed on the moon.

 

[NPloysa]

Edit: Found the info I needed. Turns out the Lunar Roving Vehicle, the LRV, was folded up and stored in Quad 1, in the bottom of the Lunar Module's descent stage. Kind of like putting your luggage in the bottom of a greyhound bus. Info was found here, 5th paragraph down:



http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.html



Kind of off the hoax subject, but has to do with the lunar landings. I was reading my girlfriend's Air and Space Museum book and could not figure this out. After reaching orbit the Command/Service (CSM) module undocks from the last stage of the Saturn V, which contains the last booster and the Lunar Module. The CSM does a 180 and docks, with it's nose, to the Lunar Module (LM). The CSM pulls the LM out of the booster stage and off to the mood they go (did go).



My question, on the Lunar Missions where they drug the Lunar Rover along, where was it stored on its takeoff from Earth to orbit, and where was it attached on it's way from orbit to the moon?



For those of you who don't know, the CSM stays in lunar orbit, and the ascent stage, or top half of the LM return to lunar orbit, docks back with the CSM, transfer the two astronauts, dumps the ascent stage of the LM, the CSM and 3 astronauts go back to earth, get into orbit, dump the Service Module (SM), and return to earth in the Command Module. The descent stage of the LM and the rover are left on the moon, the ascent stage of the LM and the SM are left in space.



But my question still stands, how does the rover get to the moon??



Nick

 

[lpearson]

I've looked all over for that show and I can't find it. Here is a site though that debunks all of the hoax theories out there - http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html . Many of the same arguments given on that show are on there. Here's an article on the experiment that's still in place on the moon and still functioning today that I spoke about above - http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/features.cfm?feature=605 .

Thanks Steve,



I still have some nagging questions. I didn't see the FOX show, I bought a film from B. W. Sibrel (Moonmovie.com). It's not a long video, but after reading the NASA comeback and others on this Thread, there are still some things not addressed that bother me. I wish I could show this film and then let others comment.



One question about the Van Allen Belt (found in 1958- when was he interviewed anyway?)----, (I'm not an engineer or ???) so I don't totally understand this radiation issue fully. However, NASA said that they went through the area of least radiation. From what I can find the Van Allen Belt is about 40,000+ miles deep.



In my thinking how would they know where the least amount of radiation was so as to navigate straight through, because this radiation changes all the time.



It's like if I decided to take a trip in a convertable with the top down because the weather was fine when I started and I was going to drive around the world almost twice(aprox 50,000 mi. ) and never put the top up because I assume that the weather would never change, but be uniform the whole way.



They had to travel about 40,000 miles through this belt, and remember that about 35 years ago in the 1960's we were in the "Stone Age" with regards to Electronics and Computors.



While still in the "Stone Age" of Electronics and Computors; on our first attempt out, we went successfully to the moon and back, why is it that all manned spacecraft remains under this radiation belt. Heck, the joint space station in orbit presently will some day fall to the earth. Surely with our modern computer, electronics and technology and it's no big deal why not build a permenate station on the moon and use that as a bouncing station for futher space exploration?



I wish someone else who has seen this film would come in with comment.



Just to many unanswered questions. Photo of a Moon Rock with a "c" clearly on it and then 30 years later same photo retouch with no "c" on it?



No lunar dust on the landing pod after it decended with the rockets firing? No crater or even dust disturbed under the lunar rocket thrusters (looks like it was just placed there because the dust is still under the rockets)?



Photographs looking back at the lunar craft with different shadow angles in the same shots, showing at least two or 3 different sources of back lighting (the sun and ???).





NASA didn't address these questions to my satisfaction, nor did the "site hoax" above, I think he side stepped many of the issues and made statements assuming he had completely debunked these issues when in my opinion he didn't. I think the best idea is to actually review the original photos along with his debunking ideas and see if you agree with his logic?



Thanks,

Lowell

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Yes, that show went over all of those. Here's a site with information on the Van Allen belt and a couple of snippets from it - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt

Conspiracy theorists have argued that space travel to the moon is impossible because the Van Allen radiation would kill or incapacitate an astronaut who made the trip. In practice, even at the peak of the belts, one could live for several months without receiving a lethal dose, and launch sites and paths are chosen not to pass through said peak.

.

.

When the Apollo astronauts travelled to the moon the astronauts received about 1% of a fatal dose in the few hours they were crossing these regions of space.

The space station is spending an extended period of time up there - not hours, hence the need to stay out of it. There is talk about building a permanent station on the moon but to use that as a stepping stone to further exploration thus far really doesn't make sense. Our further exploration currently uses all non-manned craft because of the length of time in transit. We have been able to launch those from here on earth where they are being made relatively inexpensively compared to building a manufacturing and launching base on the moon. If we wanted to we could assuming we were willing to spend the money - which I don't think we are.



I don't recall for sure what they said about the C but I believe they thought that it was contamination on the developing enlarger lense - ie a hair. Don't remember that for sure.



They did go over the dust issue and showed in photos where dust was disturbed - blow away from the site upon landing.



The shadow angles they simulated in a completely dark room with a simulated lunar landscape and had one single light source. Because of shadows falling down hills, across slopes, and up hills that changes the visible angle of the shadows.

 

[lpearson]

Interesting logic

And the other day I got an e-mail telling me about the "white UN" aircraft that are flying all over the US spraying us with toxins to make us all sick so the UN can take over the country---------

and don't forget those black choppers... ... ...



There is a wierd yarn where ever you turn. You should have heard some of the "true" storys I heard doing mental hearings!!!!,



Vaughn

Interesting logic Vaughn,



"Black Choppers" do exist, I've seen quite a few of them and there are hundreds of other eye witness residents out here that have too.



Couple of years ago a Rancher not far from where I live called the local T. V. stations in the Colorado Springs area and said (I quote) "Remember those Black Helicopters that don't exsist? Well, one just crash landed in my field out back, so you better get someone out here to get it. " Local T. V. showed pictures.



There also might be something to "Chemtrails" that the e-mail was addressing. Don't have time to go into it, but lots of info on-line.



Predisposed?----- There is truth outside your court room whether you choose to find out or not.



Lowell

 

[snowracer69]

Interesting logic Vaughn,



"Black Choppers" do exist, I've seen quite a few of them and there are hundreds of other eye witness residents out here that have too.



Couple of years ago a Rancher not far from where I live called the local T. V. stations in the Colorado Springs area and said (I quote) "Remember those Black Helicopters that don't exsist? Well, one just crash landed in my field out back, so you better get someone out here to get it. " Local T. V. showed pictures.



There also might be something to "Chemtrails" that the e-mail was addressing. Don't have time to go into it, but lots of info on-line.



Predisposed?----- There is truth outside your court room whether you choose to find out or not.



Lowell

wow... . you have some serious issues. What's it like to live in your world?



Yes, there's black helicopters. And blue ones, and red ones, and white ones, and even multi-colored ones! Some of them even transport top-secret people/things, and some of them are even probably used to "watch" certain things.



Chemtrails? My god... I don't even know where to begin... .



I believe the govt. does things that they don't want me to know about, and that I don't want to know about. There are folks who work places I'd probably rather not see, and then there are others that I want to work alongside (have a very good friend who got a job with Boeing's Phantom Works, and no, he can't tell us where he'll be working!).



Ya know, the folks in China don't even get to question their govt, and yet here we are wondering if the govt is out to get us or not... . quite the place we live, don't ya think?

 

[lpearson]

wow... . you have some serious issues. What's it like to live in your world?





Chemtrails? My god... I don't even know where to begin... .

Chemtrails? Well please begin and enlighten me with your vast knowledge,---- and while your at it, you must be quite a person if you don't say so yourself, so help me with my so called serious issues. :-laf



Lowell

 

[Texas Diesel]

Thanks Steve,



I still have some nagging questions.



No lunar dust on the landing pod after it decended with the rockets firing? No crater or even dust disturbed under the lunar rocket thrusters (looks like it was just placed there because the dust is still under the rockets)?



Photographs looking back at the lunar craft with different shadow angles in the same shots, showing at least two or 3 different sources of back lighting (the sun and ???).



Thanks,

Lowell

I'll answer these two: First the no "smoke" from the engine, if you remember the landing sequence you will hear the copilot count down the elevation, drift and fuel remaining. Then you hear "contact light" and then "engine stop". When the LEM is 36" above the surface probes signal them that the surface is close and they shut the engine off and drop easily to the surface. If you look at pictures you can CLEARLY see surfance disturbance radially out from under the engine.



There is no atmosphere on the moon so light bounces around freely, the varying angles is from reflected light off of the lunar hills surrounding the LEM.

Why no sun shots? Go out side and take a picture of the bright sun and clouds, let me know what the camera sees. Hint: the film will be washed out completely. Better idea, go outside and stare at the sun and describe the clouds adjacent to the sun. Ever been outside at twilight and notice you have no shadow? You must be vampire then.



Van Allen Radiation Belts, look at the shieding they had on the CM and the TIME they were actually inside the belts.



I saw the show that Steve was referring to and it nailed the lid down on the idiots saying it was faked. Heck, just LOOK at the idiots making the claims, one was living a trailer with a yard full of junk and dogs and dont forget he had a tooth or two still installed. That was the funniest part, these two retards making these nutty claims.



My responses are NOT directed at you personally but rather, the ones making the stupid claims. Hope this answers some of your questions.

 

[merryman]

Lowell;



Sure wish you could have sat in on some of the Mental Hearing I presided over;There was a strange parallel between those with serious mental problems and the belief in the black helos, phony gov't claims, etc. Heck, a few were sure I was part of a gov't plot to shut them up so they could not tell the world about these things----------or maybe I was and was just being manipulated be the CIA and just couldn't figure it out :{



Vaughn

 

[Scot]

Mike, you hit the nail on the head. Kelly Johnson took the U2 from, "let's build this" to lifting off the runway in less than a year. And the JSF is how far behind?

 

[merryman]

Yea, I am one who tends to dismiss as so much "fringe crapola", the claims about "black helos", UN planes spraying us, UFOs, etc, not because people don't see things, but as Mike pointed out, they may get a glimps of something like a stealth fighter or some other secret device, or just something that looks real strange and jump to a weird erroneous conclusion.



I had such an experience about 20 years ago. Wife and I were driving along at night when we saw a "UFO" in the sky; a group of flashing colored lights way out on the horrizon that seemed to be standing still. Curiosity required that we pursue it; when we got close enough to see, it was a small airplane with colored lights on the wings, sort of like a mobile christmas display coming directly at us so that the relative movement was near zero.



I believe that the "UFO's people see would turn out to be explained in some such way---unusual aircraft, ball lightening etc.



Vaughn

 

[klenger]

Why is it that bright lights are always associated with UFO's? Have any of our spacecraft ever had bright lights on them? I think it's our facination with glitter and hype instead of functionallity that movie industry is going for.



End hyjack

 

[AfterBurner]

Ok, apparently i live in the dark age, what's the story about black helos?

speaking of Kelly Johnson and the Have Blue project, have any of ya'll read Skunk Works? if not, it's a must if aerospace r&d interests you.



In my home town, we have F-117s that fly a waypoint over us. they come i nfrom the north, usually, and make a 90 degree, pull out east a few miles, then head north again. I'm sure our town has been "bombed" many a times! watching those things at night, especially if they kill the nav lights, would be freaky if i didn't already know what they were

Ever been driving along and your radar detector starts going bizerk and there is no one around for miles? Yeah, ours does periodically, only thing i could figure is the high flying AF; or could be UFO's i guess

 

[Mike Ellis]

Afterburner,



There have been a bazillion posts in the fringe newsgroups about people seeing "black helicopters" prowling about in areas where UFO sightings are reported, the more lurid tales associate them with the famous "Men in Black" but there has been a trend in recent years of people reporting them in association with general "secret gubmint" hijinks. Interestingly enough there are a few incidents though where lots of different people report the choppers in a particular area which seemingly has nothing to do with the military.



I say "seemingly" because when I was a boy, we had a summer once where military cargo planes would frequently come in over our back pasture and make a sharp turn back toward Ft. Worth. As a healthy red-blooded American boy, this was OF COURSE evidence that the US military had seen my awesome shooting and hunting skills and were preparing to land back there and recruit me for some Johnny Quest-style adventure :-laf I used to run out of the barn and wave and holler at the planes, doubt they ever knew I was there. Wasn't until I was grown that I understood the concept of a waypoint for training runs, our barn was a nice landmark near a prominent hill.



I have learned over the years that our military aircraft can account for a lot of the strange sightings, but I have known too many people in my own line of work who have seen some seriously strange things to dismiss everything as bunk out of hand.



klenger,



See the reason why you see those bright lights is that the UFO guys travelled all the way across the galaxy to observe us, but are too stupid to notice that our own airplanes have nav lights for night time flight. If they flitted around with standard nav lights glued on, nobody would ever see UFOs and I guess that would be bad for publicity

 

[Scot]

UFO's: Dad and I were out near Rosenberg TX back in the 70's. As were are driving down the road, we see (sunny day) a silver object moving low and fast. We just looked at each other. It appeared to be moving too fast for any sort of aircraft.



We stopped at a wrecking yard and started wondering around. Several minutes later, we were nearly vacuumed up by a T38 flying at treetop level.

 

[AfterBurner]

i have a ufo pic. how do i put on here?

 

[curatchko]

Pretty sure your gov't and military do lots of things we don't know about, and truthfully have no business knowing about anyways... .



If there are black helicopters--cool... . at least they're *our* black helicopters...

So much for "of the people by the people"...

 

[lcoblentz]

Oo. One of our favorites here at work... .....

 

[kess]

I can also state that the Mr. Gorsky tale is untrue. Having lived next door to Steve and Viola Armstrong (Neil's parents) for many years as a child in Wapakoneta, OH, I did not even know a Gorsky.

Kess