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Diesel a by-product of gasoline?

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Anyone burning crude oil in their diesel?

I keep hearing people say that diesel is a by-product of the gasoline production process, but the way I understand it, it is a separately refined product. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I hate biting my lip when I hear people say that, but it seems so widely spread that I'm beginning to doubt what I always knew to be true. :confused:
 
there's no such thing as a byproduct in oil refining, other than maybe dirt. everything is a valuable product... everything!
 
I think they get almost 20 gallons of gasoline and about 10 gallons of diesel out of a barrel of crude. Separately. As BigEasy said, there are no byproducts.
 
"By-Product"

Some petroleum engineer may have a better explanation but here is my understanding of the refining process--crude as it may be. (no pun intended)

When crude oil is processed in a cat-cracker the different compounds seperate at various elevations in the chamber and are drawn off. The only way that diesel can possibly be considered a by-product is if it is not being sought after. There are many compounds in crude oil that can only be extracted by "cracking", gasoline happens to be a very, very popular one. I too have recently been told, "Diesel is a by-product of gasoline production. " I do not try to engage most of these people in conversation as they are the same people who ask,"When are you going to put a chip in your truck. " We know fueling boxes go in diesels--not chips. Hope this helps!!

ANDY
 
Great site Wolf. Back before there were as many diesels on the road as there are now, it was referred to as a "By Product". Now it and many other products are valuable.



If your area has a refinery, look for the tallest collum on the property. Look at the piping that appears to come off of the sides of that collum. There is also one at the very top. The crude is heated and turns to vapor (much like boiling water). The lighter (specific gravity) the product, the higher it travels in the collum before passing from a vapor back to a liquid and out of the collum. The vapor that passes out the top is sent on to another section to "cook" it a little more. Diesel, kerosene and jet fuel come off of these collums 1,2,3. There may be only 6 inches to 1 foot separating where they return back to a liquid state, thus some piping is located very close together.



This is a EXTREMELY simple description of the process.



Jim
 
Diesel was once considered a by product. It was known (during the 20's/30's and early 40's as a distillate along with ten other names like; stove fuel, tractor fuel etc.



Propane was also a waste product that was burned off at the refinery untill the late 40's/early 50's. (maybe even butane?)



The John Deere two cylinder farm tractor that are designed to burn the tractor fuel/distillate will operate on diesel fuel just like they did in the 20's/30's/40's etc. Spark ignition engine you understand.



The local Co-Op dropped diesel into the farm's gasoline fuel bulk tank. LOL!!!! My tractor (1950 JD Model "A") and I didn't even know it untill the (gasoline) pickup truck was filled with this "stuff" and would no longer operate. I could use it but nobody else could.
 
Higher cost of Diesel

Why is it Diesel used to be 5 to 15 percent cheaper several years ago? Now the cost is often higher than premium gas. Can anyone explain?
 
maybe it took the #%$*ers that long to realize they can jack up the price on diesel :(



CJaeger said:
Why is it Diesel used to be 5 to 15 percent cheaper several years ago? Now the cost is often higher than premium gas. Can anyone explain?
 
CJaeger said:
Why is it Diesel used to be 5 to 15 percent cheaper several years ago? Now the cost is often higher than premium gas. Can anyone explain?
Supply and demand - it depends on which refined product has the highest demand at a given time. Right now, diesel is substantially lower than 87 octane unleaded regular in the Houston area.



Rusty
 
RustyJC said:
Supply and demand - it depends on which refined product has the highest demand at a given time. Right now, diesel is substantially lower than 87 octane unleaded regular in the Houston area.



Rusty
Also didn't the feds put an extra tax on top of road diesel pumps about 5-6 years ago?
 
I think that one of the reasons for the price of Diesel being higher than Gas is COMPETITION! Competition with who? Our US government of course. Mr. Bush’s war and the merchant fleet have drastically increased the consumption of Diesel and Jet Fuel! All this with limited refining capacity.



The difference between Diesel, Kerosene and Jet fuel etc. is small.



The military has been for years been going to a single fuel military.



As for the Navy, if you aren’t on a Nuclear powered Submarine or a nuclear powered Aircraft Carrier you are on a Diesel or Turbine powered Naval vessel.



The Merchant Fleet is almost 100% Diesel powered, check out “ The Worlds largest diesel engine”- http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/ How do you think all that foreign “stuff’ gets here from over the pond?



108,920 HP @ 102 RPM

5,608,312 lb/ft @ 102 RPM this is for the 14-cylinder version.



(I have been seriously been considering on “shoe horning” the “smaller” 6 cylinder into my D/C) This would probably require HD springs and shocks on the front suspension though.



Anyway the way I see it is that the war in Iraq is a big factor in the increase in the cost of fuel in general and in Diesel specifically.



Here is something else for all you “gear heads”



Info for gearheads and auto nuts ... and pilots

Interesting Facts about a Top Fuel dragster



Something everybody should know





One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500.



* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1-1/2 gallons of nitromethane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.



* A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the dragster supercharger.



* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition.

Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.



* At the stoichiometric (stoichiometry: methodology and technology by which quantities of reactants and products in chemical reactions are determined) 1. 7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitromethane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F.



* Nitromethane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases.



* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.



* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After ½ way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow.



* If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half.



* In order to exceed 300 mph in 4. 5 seconds dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8G's.



* Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading this sentence.



* Top Fuel Engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light!



* Including the burnout the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load.



* The redline is actually quite high at 9500rpm.



* The Bottom Line; Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated $1,000. 00 per second.



The current Top Fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4. 441 seconds for the quarter mile (10/05/03, Tony Schumacher). The top speed record is 333. 00 mph. (533 km/h) as measured over the last 66' of the run (09/28/03 Doug Kalitta).



Putting all of this into perspective:



You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter "twin-turbo" powered Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and past the dragster at an honest 200

mph. The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that moment.



The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him. Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race course.



That folks, is acceleration
 
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In refining diesel at one time may have been considered a by-product of the process to make gasoline, but it's just terminology as diesel/fuel oils are cracked to make more gasoline. As production shifts to produce more gasoline, the supply of diesel will be reduced, which drives the price up.



Heavier components are refined to produce the desirable lighter components.



The link provided above by Grey Wolf is an over simplification of refining.
 
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klenger said:
I suppose beer is a byproduct of what, ... making animal food from gain?

In trying to answer that question, a sample was sent to an independent labratory for testing, the results came back saying "don't work that mule for two more weeks. " :cool: bg
 
wrknrott said:
The link provided above by Grey Wolf is an over simplification of refining.
No flame intended, but did you read past page 1? It covers cracking (making heavier fractions into lighter fractions) and unification (making lighter fractions into heavier fractions) as well as alteration - see HERE.



Rusty
 
RustyJC said:
No flame intended, but did you read past page 1? It covers cracking (making heavier fractions into lighter fractions) and unification (making lighter fractions into heavier fractions) as well as alteration



Yes... I guess over simplification was a little strong. I should have said that it's a good overview of some basics... refining 101 just enough info to be dangerous :D
 
Agreed. One won't get his PhD in Petroleum Engineering by reading this presentation, but it's a pretty good overview.



Rusty
 
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