2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Diesel Cost Effectiveness?

[Piston Slapper]

Saw a thread here sometime ago showing mathematically the difference between gasoline powered 2500 and a cummins powered 2500. Showed cummins powered 2500 to be cheaper in the long haul if you take into account that diesel is usually cheaper and gets better fuel mileage, when figured over the total finance term of say 60 months.



I am trying to get my brother-in-law to buy a diesel. He is stuck on that $4,000 more for the cummins option and I can't get him to see the big picture.



I for the life of me can't find it on the search and I can't figure out how to compute it myself..... Help!

 

[Lsfarm]

Real cost Difference

The real cost difference is the resale value of a Cummins truck. Check the Blue book on a several year old Gasser, and compare to the same truck W/Diesel price. The diesel holds a lot more of it's original purchase price compared to the Gasser.



Most used diesel trucks around here sell immediately and the gassers stay for sale for months. There is a strong demand for used diesel trucks.



Greg L

 

[illflem]

For what it's worth

When I was buying my '95s the dealer's truck fleet manager told me the break even point was 100k. I have no idea where his info came from, but can see no reason for him to lie since I'm sure he preferred to sell me the more expendsive trucks.

 

[BarryG]

Barrington:

Maybe this will help:

Assume in the gasser you get 14mpg avg

Assume in the diesel you get 18mpg avg

Assume the gas cost 1. 40 gal

Assume the diesel cost 1. 40 gal



For the gasser 1. 40/14=. 10 cents per mile to run

for the diesel 1. 40/18=. 07 cents per mile



difference being 3 cents a mile in favor of the diesel



4000 engine option/. 03=133,333. 33 miles to breakeven.



For the same driving my 96 gasser 1/2 ton ex cab would get about 13-14mpg and I currently get about 18-19mpg in the diesel 3/4ton quad cab for the exact same driving.



The above only takes fuel costs into account. There may be other savings in maintenence but I sure don't know what they are, both vehicles require about the same routine maintenence.

I used an equal fuel price because around here diesel is sometimes up to a dime cheaper and sometimes up to a dime more than gas but I would say that in general it is tilted more at the less than gas price. Another thing to remember is that 133k on a cummins diesel is nothing whereas on a gasser 133k is. If you were someone who traded in your vehicle every couple years it may not be worth it "unless you need the power and torque". I don't usually need it except on occassion but I do plan on keeping this vehicle for 500k and in my case it will be a wise investment as far as a vehicle goes.



500,000 *. 03 cents =15,000-4,000 engine option=11,000 savings in fuel alone not to mention not many gassers out there that will run 500k. I bought a heavy duty truck and it lives a relatively light duty life and I fully expect it to last 500k if not more. Literally saves me buying another gasser as well. So I guess you could add another 30+k to that 11k figure if you wanted to stretch it. Not to mention the extremely large grin on my face when I drive it (priceless).

 

[Piston Slapper]

That's it!

Thanks, That's what I was looking for. Then if you take it further to include diesel is . xx cents cheaper. I think he'll still buy the ol 360 gasser, but anyway. He'll just have to live with the fact that his truck is 2nd to mine. Good thing he wants a black one, the soot from mine want show up so bad on the front of his!!



Piston Slapper forever!!

 

[Posm]

Go to the KBB.com website and compare the trade in value using whatever his miles and years trade in might be. Ie 4 years old and 80K . I have found the deisel to pay for its self in most cases in trade in alone. I agree with the 14MPG and the 18MPG figures used in the post above. The only cost difference in maintance is the three gallons of oil VS the 1. 5 Gallons and the fuel filters. Maybee your brother-in-law can not afford the payments on the extra 4K??

 

[Piston Slapper]

I think the payments might be and issue, but not much. I was jsut trying to show him that he'll end up spending it anyway with all the extra fuel he'll buy for his. He gets 14/mpg, I get 20/mpg. He'll get 460 miles on 30 gallons. I'll get 600. The money he spends on gas for the month can be the difference in the payment. That is what I was trying to figure out. Is it the difference??



I thought that this would be easy to figure out with math, but I start doing it and I get confused. It also doesn't help the fight when diesel is high priced now, and it is higher than gasoline where he lives (chicago). Thanks for your thoughts, more like thanks for your math.

 

[schu777]

I did a quick check on KBB and found a 98 4x4 diesel (nothing extra) with 100,000 miles on it priced out to be 15,745 (private sell) while the V8 was 12,255. Very interesting and something I didn't do when I chose the truck. At one time I did a spead sheet to figure out the price of the cummins and figured it to be in the 130k mileage where it paid off. Right now I'm VERY happy with the truck with the mpg it gets - highway it's seeing 19-21 depending on the speed of the truck and city driving it's 15-17 depending on how many red lights I hit.



Spend the extra money and get the diesel... it's worth it!!

 

[jeepit]

You can't estimate 14 mpg for the gasser. I had a 360 with 4:10's and averaged 11 mpg and towing I got 8mpg. Now do your estimating!!

 

[hammersley]

Some foll has gott'a buy em''''

Hey, you can't convince some people of anything - why bother. I know for a fact that after having this truck, I can't stand the thought of having a gutless, light duty, POS gas engine again..... And if you buy gasoline - there's a debate about which gas powerplant is better. In case of the Diesel - the commercial market has this one figured out. . and it's Mr. C all the way! BTW - just have your relative drive an ISB with only an EZ - have him go to a hill - step on the go-pedal - feel the power - then do it with a gaser - even the mighty V-10 - the answer is obvious. Also a big thing that is often dismissed is the RANGE - you can get VS gas. Try really working these rigs in 4wd or towing, the difference is alarming. Now I don't know you're driving habits but here in the West, there are lots of places that the limited range of gas rigs is a very big problem, i. e. you only get started going someplace and before you know it, you have half a tank of fuel, and none to go any further - you need that to get back. And then driving in the Mountains, well there is no comparisson. And where I live, you can't give a 3/4 ton gaser away... ... .

 

[richardcoxid]

Barrington-



Maybe this will be helpful



Sometime in 1998 Trailer Life magazine compared a Ford/460 gasser with a Ford Diesel PU. Both trucks were set up as close to the same as possible, then connected to identical RV pull trailers and driven about 600 mi. , even rotating the drivers. This gave them a good fuel mileage reference. Then they factored in the current gas/diesel fuel prices.



Then they factored in the Ford recommended service intervals at the current dealer prices. It seems to me that even with the added initial cost of the Diesel engine, it paid for itself after about 80,000 mi. They also commented that comparing a GM gas/diesel and Dodge gas/diesel would probably give similar results. Your specific type of driving habits, cost of fuel etc. could change the figures somewhat, but I don't think it would be by very much.



This is all from memory, you might go to your local library or maybe to Trailer Life magazine and do a search.



As far as life expectancy, the ’98 Dodge Cummins literature that I have in my hand says “xxxxx average of nearly 300,000 miles before its FIRST overhaul xxxx”



I guess the best advice would be this; if you are going to buy a ½T truck and use it as a passenger car with a minimum of lightweight towing a gasser would be fine. If you are going to buy a 3/4T heavy-duty truck and pull a heavy (6-7,000# or more) trailer for many,many miles the Diesel is the only way to go.



This doesn't say anything about resale value etc. This is only about daily operating expense.

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

As some one mentioned if he plans on pulling anything the diesel will really shine, load a gasser down and the mileage will drop to 6 or 7 mpg while the cummins still gets 14 mpg. I think everyone has pointed out that he will get his money back when it comes time to trade the vehicle in. Then the fuel savings will pay for the option by about 100k miles. And BTW my old '94 360 1/2 gasser was lucky to get 12 mpg on a good day. I think people and trucks are wiseing up to diesel and it is growing big time in popularity I would say 4 years from now V8 gassers will be all but about extinct and they will not be able to give them away. What is the saying once you go_______ you don't go back. well once you go diesel you don't go back.

 

[daveshoe]

Think about this.

I know that everyone has to think about the most advantageous time to trade our trucks. Mabe your truck has given you ten years of good service as my k2500 chevy had. I am in business and the old girl was due a paint job and a new utility body. The question is how much do you spend on a new fitting out when your motor may start to nickel and dime [or dollar] you to death? I did this once with a previous truck and paid a heavy price.

A Cummins diesel gives you the confidence that you can spend money on repairs to the truck body and drivetrain and do these repairs to the highest standards of quality , while not having to be concerned that the engine may be getting to tired to justify the expense.

That is how to save some money . The enjoyment factor-- Priceless

 

[keimmmo]

Down here in central Mexico diesel is about $. 50 per gallon CHEAPER than gasoline!!! Plug that into your figures!!! Factor in towing power, performance at high altitude, and all the other factors you fellows have mentioned, and you will see why I drive a diesel!!!



I figure the fuel savings compared to a comparable gasser on the old '92 was equal to the purchase price of the truck at about 250,000 miles!!! That has been one cheap truck!!!



I really like the '01. 5. It was more expensive to buy, but gets even better economy than the '92. I hope it will work out about the same for it. Have to LOVE my diesels!!!



Steve

 

[Lockard]

Just bought a used 2001 3500 and when the bank was figuring out the value they said that the V10 option was worth $700 and the diesel was worth $3500. The truck has 80K on it. So, you really can say that you can recoup half of the value of the diesel option at 100K.

 

[keimmmo]

I have been thinking about it. We all love our diesels and they make real sense for us economically. However, a diesel IS NOT for everyone!!! Some just are not willing to put up with the noise and smell. Others who live in a cold area have to deal with plugging them in to be able to start them and have to deal with fuel gelling. We can point out why we like our trucks, but if someone doesn't want one, THEY DON'T WANT ONE!!! Not everyone has the same likes and we certainly do not all think alike!!!



Steve

 

[cmckinney]

Anyone notice the price of diesel going up? I thought diesel was supposed to be less expensive then gas. So much for price saving at the pump per gallon.



-CM

 

[Piston Slapper]

Not for everyone.

I always have said the same thing keimmmo. The big turn off for diesels to most people are the noise and the smell, which is what the most of us like! I was just try'n to show him it made sense to go ahead and buy it cause he loves mine and he would love to own a diesel too. Everytime we are together, he wants to drive. He just can't get past the diesel option price tag. I was trying to explain to him you might as well spend it now and get what you want cause you are going to spend that money anyway in more gasoline for yours, if you buy it. He drives a 1 1/2 hr commute daily to work. One way!!!! He lives only about 45 miles!! Chicago, I tell ya... .

 

[duaneparks]

Re: Not for everyone.

Originally posted by barrington

I always have said the same thing keimmmo. The big turn off for diesels to most people are the noise and the smell, which is what the most of us like! I was just try'n to show him it made sense to go ahead and buy it cause he loves mine and he would love to own a diesel too. Everytime we are together, he wants to drive. He just can't get past the diesel option price tag. I was trying to explain to him you might as well spend it now and get what you want cause you are going to spend that money anyway in more gasoline for yours, if you buy it. He drives a 1 1/2 hr commute daily to work. One way!!!! He lives only about 45 miles!! Chicago, I tell ya... .

You know, I went through this very thing... I wanted a diesel and my commute is . 75-1. 25hrs each way depending on time of day. I drove a '99 360 powered 2500 4x4 QC with 4. 10 gears and auto and OUCH, the gas was killing me. Can you say $350/month just for gas? 11mpg ON THE HIGHWAY sucks. Heaven forbid you get caught in stop-and-go traffic, or drive through a bunch of red lights. You can watch the gas gauge go down, literally, while getting 7-9 mpg. I had a '97 318 powered 1500 4x4 CC 5spd that I dearly loved and it's mileage approached what I'm getting now with my diesel (it got ~16mpg avg, I miss that truck). It succombed to old age, as gassers do, and I traded it in for the '99 2500 gasser when it had 150K miles on it and a new problem every other week.



Now that I'm in this diesel truck, my fuel bill is nearly cut in half although the truck payment is higher. There's something about the combination of this truck (which is the best overall design on the road IMHO) and the Cummins engine (which IS the best engine on the road IMHO) that makes it all worth it to me.



Others may disagree, I know a few of my relatives do, but they can't deny the looks they get when we're out in my truck.



Anyway, after having owned two gas powered trucks, and having relatively good experiences with both (except for the gas mileage thing on the 2500), this diesel truck beats them hands down in the fuel economy, range, longevity, resale value, and fun-to-drive quotients. The "coolness" factor is just icing on the cake.



And for the minor inconveniences of owning a diesel such as gelling that's easily cured by additives that probably should be used anyway, and block heaters, well, like they say, diesels aren't for everyone. I'll take having to plug my truck up and put in fuel additive at each fillup to be able to drive the best truck on the planet.



Just my $. 02 (well, maybe $. 03) worth



Duane

 

[KMeek]

I feel particularly well qualified to answer part of the issues addressed here since I owned a 1998 Dodge V-10 before I bought my Dodge Diesel. First, it would be mixing apples and oranges to compare a V-8 gasser to a diesel. I would expect that the only fair comparison would be a large gasser like a V-10 or the large Chevy V-8 to a diesel. I say that because the mileage of a large gas motor is what should be compared to the diesel mileage. People typically don't/can't use the smaller gassers for the same purposes as a diesel. With my V-10 I got 9-10 in town and 12-14 on the Highway and @ 8 towing a 5th wheel weighing about 7,000 pounds. With the Cummins I get 17 in town and @17 on the Highway. Towing the same 5th wheel I get 13 mpg. Overall diesel fuel has been more expensive here in Montana over the last year--at least in my part of the State. Virtually every calculation I do--regardless of sophistication--indicates it will take at least 100,000 miles to break even for the cost of the diesel.



But, I think a cost based analysis is not the proper analysis anyway. I have found that there are many intrinsic reasons to buy the diesel. Even though I liked my V-10 it really does not compare to the diesel for towing. Additionally, there is something intrinsically fun about changing from gas to diesel--it teaches you new things about driving and motors and ways to improve motors. IMO most TDR members are like me and bought the diesel for many reasons unrelated to economy. Frankly, while many Cummins owners may have their trucks for 100,000 miles I bet at least 80% of us get a different truck before 100,000.



In short, a fianancial analysis may be fun but I doubt many people actually base their purchase decision on economics (although some clearly do). In my view diesel truck purchases are driven more by intrinsic issues (such as performance, status, appearance, etc) than economics.



WOW! Did any of that make sense?